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Bb Turn Radius And Rate

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Bb Turn Radius And Rate

#11
Well, I gave a look at my navy books and didnt find anything about BB and DD turn radius at various speeds.
Anyway there are some famous pics (for example some taken during the battle of Midway) of axis BBs/CVs engaged by dive bombers and/or torpedo bombers that give an idea about how well could those monsters maneuver at medium/high speeds ... I know we cannot estimate *exactly* their speeds but for sure turn radius in ERT looks weird ...

[No need to post the pics again, so please look above. Ulsterman]
The circle has a radius of roughly two ship lengths - but how did the circle stay that long in the first pic? Strange.

The second picture however strikes gold. It shows the carrier Akagi at high speed (~30 knots), I've seen the picture before. Akagi was laid down as a 35,000 ton battlecruiser (which is close to the real Hood class) and ended up as a carrier following the Washington Treaty. Fully loaded it had some 36,000 to 41,000 tons (It's difficult to give exact values, as sources give very different information about displacement).

Akagi was 855ft /260m long, so you can estimate. The trail is about 1.5 kilometers long (estimated, using the ship's length as measurement), and it's a turn of roughly 90?. At 30 knots you travel the distance in about 100 seconds.

Although it's a very rough estimation you could say that you should be able to perform a 180? turn with a BC at flank speed in 3 1/2 to 4 minutes, and your turning circle should have a diameter of about 1900m, a little more than a nautical mile.

EDIT: I found some data at hmshood.com. Close to the bottom of the document you can find a table about turn times and speed lost duing turns. I think these rates are those promised by the shipyard/admirality and were a little worse in reality, and of course they don't consider bad weather.

Bb Turn Radius And Rate

#12
Good job with that estimation, Ulsterman. Nice way to come up with a rough idea of the turning radius. And thanks for the photo, Gatt Image

Blast it, I had all this information somewhere in my dusty files. They are charts of turn radius and rates, with speed loss and date from my naval board and miniatures days. All the useful historical data and information you needed to move and fight 3" ships around a basketball court all afternoon. :laugh: . Unfortunately, I can't locate it. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr >;(

But, I might know where we can get this information. I have an e-mail friend in Germany by the name of Michel Emmerich. He runs the website German Naval History. German Naval History He was a consultant for the latest Bismarck documentary that was done (cant remember exact name). If anyone would have this information, or know how to get it, Michael would. I have been meaning to write him since getting hooked up with you folks and telling him about the game and community anyway. I will drop him a line and see what info he has on turn rates, etc and get back with you. Hey, listen, this guy would be a great asset to the ERT community and a fantastic resource. Plus he writes English better than I do. :laugh: He is also good people. I'll do what I can to get him interested.

Yes, the Italian heavy units were famous for being able to outstrip their escorts when in full flight back to Taranto. rolleyes:

Regards,

SeaWolf

Bb Turn Radius And Rate

#14
Hey East, got some info you might be able to use.

Well, Michael didn't know the answer to this question, but said he would be happy to help us with the historical data he DOES have. :laugh:

I managed to find a couple of old rules sets, not the ones I'm looking for, but I found some useful information out anyway. One of them is named "Cordite and Steel" by Pat Wilson, which is a exhaustively researched WWI naval miniatures rules set. He used a system where you laid cards, cut out in the pattern of a turn, on the floor with measurments on it. I could copy all of this and send it to you if needed, but the source of the data that Wilson used are found in two books. Dutton's Navigation and Piloting by G.D. Dunlap and Captain H.H. Shufeldt and Naval Shiphandling by Captain R.S. Crenshaw. The books are available online for less than $20.00 for the pair. I hope this helps provide the technical information you are looking for.

Regards,

SeaWolf

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