We actually expect to have some of our talented fan base write those novels and, if all goes well, we'll provide the publishing opportunity for them.
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Post a replyPiecing Together A Map
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*perks up*We actually expect to have some of our talented fan base write those novels and, if all goes well, we'll provide the publishing opportunity for them.
Thanks for releasing this, East. It's a very interesting alternate world.
I'm a bit surprised you had Britain hang on this long after the defeat at Jutland. I had always heard that Jellicoe was the only single man on both sides of the war that could lose the war in a day. A victory at sea would not defeat the Germans, but a loss would doom the British. Wouldn't a major defeat at Jutland have given the Germans control of the sea lanes, resulting in a relatively quick starvation scenario in England? I know that the RN still had more smaller ships, but the Germans could sortie with their small ships supported by the HSF while the RN could not counter this. Would enough blockade runners have gotten through to supply England with sufficient raw materials and food to sustain them in the fight, including suppling the BEF?
Did Germany never sign a peace treaty with Japan after hostilities in Europe were over? Have they been at war this entire time?
Same question regarding Russia. Was the Eastern front too follow real history?
The scenario in Ireland was a very real possibility at the time.
A very imaginative twist to the worlds history, folks, can't wait to see more.
Hmmm, and now to start my book!
enigma!:
Regards,
SeaWolf
I'm a bit surprised you had Britain hang on this long after the defeat at Jutland. I had always heard that Jellicoe was the only single man on both sides of the war that could lose the war in a day. A victory at sea would not defeat the Germans, but a loss would doom the British. Wouldn't a major defeat at Jutland have given the Germans control of the sea lanes, resulting in a relatively quick starvation scenario in England? I know that the RN still had more smaller ships, but the Germans could sortie with their small ships supported by the HSF while the RN could not counter this. Would enough blockade runners have gotten through to supply England with sufficient raw materials and food to sustain them in the fight, including suppling the BEF?
Did Germany never sign a peace treaty with Japan after hostilities in Europe were over? Have they been at war this entire time?
Same question regarding Russia. Was the Eastern front too follow real history?
The scenario in Ireland was a very real possibility at the time.
A very imaginative twist to the worlds history, folks, can't wait to see more.
Hmmm, and now to start my book!
enigma!:
Regards,
SeaWolf
Hmm.......well that would make sense.........UK always had a major influence on Canada. Even in the War of 1812, America tried to invade Canada, but was kicked back by the British.I believe in-game it explicitly states that Canada is a LFN stronghold.
East, I think it is very interesting (and very wise) for you to have removed the German Nazis (obviously) and Japanese militarists (that could've been either way) from their positions of power... It makes WWII a trade war and not so much a war to dominate and subjugate other peoples. And thanks for getting us a rough timeline, very cool of you! 
P.S. How do we start writing for you?
P.S. How do we start writing for you?
Well, the end of WWI in reality and the harsh treaty of Versailles were the two major reasons why the extremist parties (both left and right wing) could gain influence in post war Germany.East, I think it is very interesting (and very wise) for you to have removed the German Nazis (obviously) and Japanese militarists (that could've been either way) from their positions of power... It makes WWII a trade war and not so much a war to dominate and subjugate other peoples.
It'll be interesting to read more about the Easter Uprising in Ireland and it's consequences, as well as the post war history of Austria-Hungary.
I'd think that it was something like this.
The Canadians are scared to death by the USA, but honor-bound to side with the King. But who is King? George was forced out, and Edward has been denounced by George. This is confusing enough, but the Canadians side with George, because Edward gave up the British Isles (sans Ireland). The Canadians don't like the fact that they are essentally defenseless against the Americans, but since the Americans are percived as the ones who didn't pitch in to save the British Empire, they are despised by most. They (Canada) feel that the LFN is too extended to defend the country (Western Canada would fall fast, and I really can't see the Canadian Army holding out for long in the East either), so they decide to call in the Germans. Quebec disagrees and trys to secede, but they are too weak. However, the last thing the US wants is an LFN or German presence on the vast northern border, and since none of the major powers are interested in a real war, the Germans abstain from occupying Canada. This weak endorsement pretty much guarantees that Canada won't fall under arms, but the LFN, which would most definately want a few Western Canadian shipyards and bases (supported by the construction of some ships in Canadian yards, warfleet.net), has apperently won the right to base some forces in Canada. If I had to guess, I'd venture that the RNE is active in Canada, but seeing as how the British Army got the $#!^ kicked out of it in Europe, and the Japanese Army is busy in Asia, the chances of a massive Canadian land battle are remote.
The LFN problably still controls south and central Africa, especially the coasts. Maybe even the Azores, supported by all those tankers near those islands. Theey also retain bases in Belize and some of the souther Caribbeans, but the US, which at the very least has power over Cuba and Puerto Rico, has secured the northern islands. Jamacia, the Virgin Islands, and the Bahamas would be lightly armed bastions with maybe a few ships, but they could not conduct offensive ops, as they would have a supply nightmare. For South America, the LFN is split with the Germans, with the GE ruling or "allied" with Argentina, and the LFN allied with Chile, Peru, and the rest of the northern nations. Brazil would probably be independent, and neutral (kind of like Switzerland). In Asia, the LFN rules China by way of Japanese expansion, but the Russians, who have split into Red Communists and white Capitalists, are neutral yet protective. So they have a (relativly) secure northern border. The situation in the Mid-East is bad, as the Germans control Turkey and possibly Iraq, forcing the LFN into Egypt (their last Northern stronghold, as Gibraltar is just a fort with little power, and the Germans are threatening the Canal, or it may already be useless. If the Germans also control Arabia, then the Africans are cut off, or at least the LFN has to divert a lot of escort to making the convoy routes safe from German raiders based in present-day Yemen/Oman. This also gives the Germans an extra supply of oil, leaving them with 2 sources (Rumania and Iraq), the US with 2 (West Continental/ Alaska) and the LFN with only the East Indies (which are scheduled to be given to Germany in the 1940s by the Treaty of Berlin, but they will have to be protected by the LFN, unless the LFN takes Siberia, which would only add to their military troubles. The US "protectorate" in Malaysia and the Phillipeans makes the LFN go far out of their way to get from Africa/Australia/Asia to Japan/China-Hong Kong/Canada (the LFN power base), so the LFN has to copy all the Japanese infastructure that they (presumably) relied upon the British Isles to have when the Empire was real. Also, since the north relies upon oil shipped through the American blockade (with bases in the Carolines, Marianas, Wake, Samoa, Aluetians), the LFN has to constantly build oilers to make up for American attrition. So you have a navy that is tasked with keeping Africa in the game while defending against IGN raids, getting raw materials and oil to the Japanese Home Islands, which requires more escorts and ships, and keeping the Americans respectful. Although China has metal, strong Canadian support would alliviate a few of these problems, esp. oil. The Atlantic force would not be more than a harrassment group, with the task of keeping the South Atlantic from becoming an IGN/USN lake. The LFN is at the least favorable position, but they're not out.
The US is in a tough spot too. They have a homeland that is bordered by chaos (Mexico, although the US Army is probably peacekeeping there, and the Mexicans would be allied with the USA) and a weak LFN military, plus a small Canadian Army. However, land forces in North America are overwhelmingly favorable to the USA, so the Canadians have nothing to gain and everything to lose, while the US might even welcome an excuse to take Canada out of the game, therefore screwing the LFN even more, and knocking down any German plans for Canada. The USN controls Morocco, as stated in the game, but this hold is just a grasp on the African continent, mostly a check on the Germans, but more a threat to the LFN, as they are the ones who really want a South African stronghold. The US has to keep Morocco strong, so figure a large fleet in the mid-Atlantic, staging from the Canary Islands.The US really has no plans for Europe, and until the LFN sinks the Wren, the GE and USA are trying to reconcile their differences. However, the US is also poking the GE in the Caribbean, where the IGN is contesting the sea from bases in French Guyana (where the European Space Center is). Figure that they also own all the non-British colonies in the Caribbean in 1914. This makes the USN responsible for limiting the LFN convoys from Belize to Africa, protecting the Canal, and keeping the Germans from moving serious forces like a battlecruiser into the South Atlantic/Caribbean. Still, this is mostly a destroyer war, with all three powers maintaining substantial air power in the area. Then you have the North Atlantic. Canada-based light warships threaten US assets, so a fleet has to guard the merchants. Then you have the Germans, who are not fans of the US-supported Irish Republic, which is the only part of Europe sans Spain/Portugal that is not pro-German or neutral. The Irish would take a lot to defend, considering their proximity to Europe, so a US fleet in Iceland is plausible. Then the USN has its Pacific obligations. They have to maintain an isolated area (Singapore/Philippeans), protect it from a three-sided attack, and cut Australia off from direct shipping to Japan. They also have to keep the Northwest reasonably free of LFN assets, and the Aluetians safe. Singapore and Manila are major fleet and Army bases, but the US presumably only sends expendable forces into those bases (destroyers, cruisers at best) keeping the carriers out of harm's way. The US is balanced, with few real deficiencies, however, it could be costly to start a war in Asia. Peace is in the US's best interests, but the LFN needs war between the US and the GE to get back into Europe, so the US walks a tightrope.
The IGN is essentially a holding force. The GE has gotten all of Europe it wants, and with a few exeptions like Gibraltar and Ireland, the empire has a clean sweep. Africa is fustrating, but the Germans really don't need it, it's the principle of the thing. Middle Eastern oil supports Germany, and the Russians are quiet, so the Army is holding their new gains. The German Navy's only missions aside from showing the flag and defense are harrassing the LFN in the Atlantic and keeping the Americans from taking too much of the globe. They are the strongest prewar power.
That's my version of Enigma.
The Canadians are scared to death by the USA, but honor-bound to side with the King. But who is King? George was forced out, and Edward has been denounced by George. This is confusing enough, but the Canadians side with George, because Edward gave up the British Isles (sans Ireland). The Canadians don't like the fact that they are essentally defenseless against the Americans, but since the Americans are percived as the ones who didn't pitch in to save the British Empire, they are despised by most. They (Canada) feel that the LFN is too extended to defend the country (Western Canada would fall fast, and I really can't see the Canadian Army holding out for long in the East either), so they decide to call in the Germans. Quebec disagrees and trys to secede, but they are too weak. However, the last thing the US wants is an LFN or German presence on the vast northern border, and since none of the major powers are interested in a real war, the Germans abstain from occupying Canada. This weak endorsement pretty much guarantees that Canada won't fall under arms, but the LFN, which would most definately want a few Western Canadian shipyards and bases (supported by the construction of some ships in Canadian yards, warfleet.net), has apperently won the right to base some forces in Canada. If I had to guess, I'd venture that the RNE is active in Canada, but seeing as how the British Army got the $#!^ kicked out of it in Europe, and the Japanese Army is busy in Asia, the chances of a massive Canadian land battle are remote.
The LFN problably still controls south and central Africa, especially the coasts. Maybe even the Azores, supported by all those tankers near those islands. Theey also retain bases in Belize and some of the souther Caribbeans, but the US, which at the very least has power over Cuba and Puerto Rico, has secured the northern islands. Jamacia, the Virgin Islands, and the Bahamas would be lightly armed bastions with maybe a few ships, but they could not conduct offensive ops, as they would have a supply nightmare. For South America, the LFN is split with the Germans, with the GE ruling or "allied" with Argentina, and the LFN allied with Chile, Peru, and the rest of the northern nations. Brazil would probably be independent, and neutral (kind of like Switzerland). In Asia, the LFN rules China by way of Japanese expansion, but the Russians, who have split into Red Communists and white Capitalists, are neutral yet protective. So they have a (relativly) secure northern border. The situation in the Mid-East is bad, as the Germans control Turkey and possibly Iraq, forcing the LFN into Egypt (their last Northern stronghold, as Gibraltar is just a fort with little power, and the Germans are threatening the Canal, or it may already be useless. If the Germans also control Arabia, then the Africans are cut off, or at least the LFN has to divert a lot of escort to making the convoy routes safe from German raiders based in present-day Yemen/Oman. This also gives the Germans an extra supply of oil, leaving them with 2 sources (Rumania and Iraq), the US with 2 (West Continental/ Alaska) and the LFN with only the East Indies (which are scheduled to be given to Germany in the 1940s by the Treaty of Berlin, but they will have to be protected by the LFN, unless the LFN takes Siberia, which would only add to their military troubles. The US "protectorate" in Malaysia and the Phillipeans makes the LFN go far out of their way to get from Africa/Australia/Asia to Japan/China-Hong Kong/Canada (the LFN power base), so the LFN has to copy all the Japanese infastructure that they (presumably) relied upon the British Isles to have when the Empire was real. Also, since the north relies upon oil shipped through the American blockade (with bases in the Carolines, Marianas, Wake, Samoa, Aluetians), the LFN has to constantly build oilers to make up for American attrition. So you have a navy that is tasked with keeping Africa in the game while defending against IGN raids, getting raw materials and oil to the Japanese Home Islands, which requires more escorts and ships, and keeping the Americans respectful. Although China has metal, strong Canadian support would alliviate a few of these problems, esp. oil. The Atlantic force would not be more than a harrassment group, with the task of keeping the South Atlantic from becoming an IGN/USN lake. The LFN is at the least favorable position, but they're not out.
The US is in a tough spot too. They have a homeland that is bordered by chaos (Mexico, although the US Army is probably peacekeeping there, and the Mexicans would be allied with the USA) and a weak LFN military, plus a small Canadian Army. However, land forces in North America are overwhelmingly favorable to the USA, so the Canadians have nothing to gain and everything to lose, while the US might even welcome an excuse to take Canada out of the game, therefore screwing the LFN even more, and knocking down any German plans for Canada. The USN controls Morocco, as stated in the game, but this hold is just a grasp on the African continent, mostly a check on the Germans, but more a threat to the LFN, as they are the ones who really want a South African stronghold. The US has to keep Morocco strong, so figure a large fleet in the mid-Atlantic, staging from the Canary Islands.The US really has no plans for Europe, and until the LFN sinks the Wren, the GE and USA are trying to reconcile their differences. However, the US is also poking the GE in the Caribbean, where the IGN is contesting the sea from bases in French Guyana (where the European Space Center is). Figure that they also own all the non-British colonies in the Caribbean in 1914. This makes the USN responsible for limiting the LFN convoys from Belize to Africa, protecting the Canal, and keeping the Germans from moving serious forces like a battlecruiser into the South Atlantic/Caribbean. Still, this is mostly a destroyer war, with all three powers maintaining substantial air power in the area. Then you have the North Atlantic. Canada-based light warships threaten US assets, so a fleet has to guard the merchants. Then you have the Germans, who are not fans of the US-supported Irish Republic, which is the only part of Europe sans Spain/Portugal that is not pro-German or neutral. The Irish would take a lot to defend, considering their proximity to Europe, so a US fleet in Iceland is plausible. Then the USN has its Pacific obligations. They have to maintain an isolated area (Singapore/Philippeans), protect it from a three-sided attack, and cut Australia off from direct shipping to Japan. They also have to keep the Northwest reasonably free of LFN assets, and the Aluetians safe. Singapore and Manila are major fleet and Army bases, but the US presumably only sends expendable forces into those bases (destroyers, cruisers at best) keeping the carriers out of harm's way. The US is balanced, with few real deficiencies, however, it could be costly to start a war in Asia. Peace is in the US's best interests, but the LFN needs war between the US and the GE to get back into Europe, so the US walks a tightrope.
The IGN is essentially a holding force. The GE has gotten all of Europe it wants, and with a few exeptions like Gibraltar and Ireland, the empire has a clean sweep. Africa is fustrating, but the Germans really don't need it, it's the principle of the thing. Middle Eastern oil supports Germany, and the Russians are quiet, so the Army is holding their new gains. The German Navy's only missions aside from showing the flag and defense are harrassing the LFN in the Atlantic and keeping the Americans from taking too much of the globe. They are the strongest prewar power.
That's my version of Enigma.
im not shure here what this post is about and my pre war history is pretty poor. But i think maybe way down the road.....after multiplayer is squared away. I think maybe in some of the patrols enigma could go into the 1943s and up to the wars in. I think the invasion of france would be really neat, not much to do but shell crap, but just seeing all thoses ships on enigma would be great.
Don't be too mad im kinda lost here on this post and always love reading the info you guys have on this stuff.
PS. maybe the battle with the Bismark.....? Already got Bcs on there.
Don't be too mad im kinda lost here on this post and always love reading the info you guys have on this stuff.
PS. maybe the battle with the Bismark.....? Already got Bcs on there.
Some good thoughts here Burrofootball68. I agree with a lot of what you have said with some exceptions and comments.
Canada - agree with the basic picture you have painted here, but if the FLN is active in Canada and the Canadian govt has allowed them to set up secret bases, this could cause them real trouble. Naval bases, by their nature, are generally relatively large affairs (unless you are talking about a few small ships, PT boats or subs) requiring extensive facilities and would are hard to keep hidden. If the US discovered that Canada was hosting enemy fleets, they would be declared a hostile country and the invasion would most likely happen anyway. Is is possible that these bases are not approved by the Canadian govt and being supported instead by dissident local officials? Again, that would be hard to keep hidden. You would have too many people involved in the operation. Canada is in a tough spot.
Africa - I see the LFN as having possession of perhaps South Africa only. The Germans were very involved with their African colonies before the war and would have moved to repossess them, imho. In fact, the Treaty of Berlin states that the colonies were to be restored to their pre-1917 status and that all the colonies would become German in 20 years, or in 1939. Remember, although these colonies were nominally to remain under the control of their original owner for those 20 years, those owners themselves were now part of the Empire and German puppets. This means that the German's had gained defacto control over all of Africa that had been in British, Belgian, French and German hands before the war. The RNE, fleeing from England, with what they could carry, were going to bases that were much less capable than those they left, with very limited factilities and supplies. The logistics of just moving the bulk of the Royal Navy halfway around the world would be incredibly difficult. One would have to assume that many were damaged, lost, or found places to hide until they could gain repairs, fuel, etc, if ever. They had no real armies left to field as they had been destroyed in France. At any rate the RNE would have taken years to recover to the level of being a dangerous international adversary again. They would have been in no position to repel the Empire's seizure of these lands if the German's had moved early. However, although I feel they would have gained control of these colonies, maintaining that control is another matter. The RNE would still have considerable influence in certain areas and the right "contacts" to cause the Germans a great deal of trouble. Africa affords an area that could provide considerable conflict. With the bulk of Africa and most of the middle east under their control, it seems likely to me that Egypt and the canal would also be in German hands. I don't see how they could have defended this from the Germans, but I think TAG has the canal still under RNE control.
S. America - agree pretty much with what you have said here. The Monroe Doctrine would tend to keep the Germans occupied across the Atlantic, but would also hurt RNE expansion there as well.
China - hmmm, dont know about this. Japan is reportedly not militarist. It would require a pretty militarist Japan to conquer China.............but the word militarist can be one of those flexible definitions.
I do see China controlled or heavily influenced by the RNE tho.
Pretty good thought provoking writeup, m8, and as valid as anything I've seen.
Regards,
SeaWolf
Canada - agree with the basic picture you have painted here, but if the FLN is active in Canada and the Canadian govt has allowed them to set up secret bases, this could cause them real trouble. Naval bases, by their nature, are generally relatively large affairs (unless you are talking about a few small ships, PT boats or subs) requiring extensive facilities and would are hard to keep hidden. If the US discovered that Canada was hosting enemy fleets, they would be declared a hostile country and the invasion would most likely happen anyway. Is is possible that these bases are not approved by the Canadian govt and being supported instead by dissident local officials? Again, that would be hard to keep hidden. You would have too many people involved in the operation. Canada is in a tough spot.
Africa - I see the LFN as having possession of perhaps South Africa only. The Germans were very involved with their African colonies before the war and would have moved to repossess them, imho. In fact, the Treaty of Berlin states that the colonies were to be restored to their pre-1917 status and that all the colonies would become German in 20 years, or in 1939. Remember, although these colonies were nominally to remain under the control of their original owner for those 20 years, those owners themselves were now part of the Empire and German puppets. This means that the German's had gained defacto control over all of Africa that had been in British, Belgian, French and German hands before the war. The RNE, fleeing from England, with what they could carry, were going to bases that were much less capable than those they left, with very limited factilities and supplies. The logistics of just moving the bulk of the Royal Navy halfway around the world would be incredibly difficult. One would have to assume that many were damaged, lost, or found places to hide until they could gain repairs, fuel, etc, if ever. They had no real armies left to field as they had been destroyed in France. At any rate the RNE would have taken years to recover to the level of being a dangerous international adversary again. They would have been in no position to repel the Empire's seizure of these lands if the German's had moved early. However, although I feel they would have gained control of these colonies, maintaining that control is another matter. The RNE would still have considerable influence in certain areas and the right "contacts" to cause the Germans a great deal of trouble. Africa affords an area that could provide considerable conflict. With the bulk of Africa and most of the middle east under their control, it seems likely to me that Egypt and the canal would also be in German hands. I don't see how they could have defended this from the Germans, but I think TAG has the canal still under RNE control.
S. America - agree pretty much with what you have said here. The Monroe Doctrine would tend to keep the Germans occupied across the Atlantic, but would also hurt RNE expansion there as well.
China - hmmm, dont know about this. Japan is reportedly not militarist. It would require a pretty militarist Japan to conquer China.............but the word militarist can be one of those flexible definitions.
I do see China controlled or heavily influenced by the RNE tho.Pretty good thought provoking writeup, m8, and as valid as anything I've seen.
Regards,
SeaWolf
Remember though that the RNE still has some Atlantic presence (Azores) and the LFN/King George denounced the Treaty of Berlin. This probably means a weak South Africa with extensions into Central Africa, but these last few colonies cannot be expected to hold out for very long if the Germans get their act together. However, the Germans were also bled out by the war, and one would imagine that the Middle Eastern mission took most availible Army assets, esp out of Africa.
As for China, I see the coasts being LFN, with the inland areas either fighting a low-intensity war or more likely just living day-to-day. The LFN at least controls the area around Hong Kong, and I can't see stopping there. Probably blockades outside of other ports too.
As for China, I see the coasts being LFN, with the inland areas either fighting a low-intensity war or more likely just living day-to-day. The LFN at least controls the area around Hong Kong, and I can't see stopping there. Probably blockades outside of other ports too.