Sunday Nite Aggro

Hi -

if u read Wig's post and mine on the 'soz' thread it gives an idea of what went on. I myself left the raid as i said in guild - if I'm not happy about something I cannot just keep going along with things - or it makes me the sort of person I cannot respect - I and many others who signed up for the raid on sunday were very unhappy with the unscheduled and last minute total change of plan - ppl said so on tribes channel and in guild - esp as many ppl were at aq20 gates already

I do appreciate the efforts Koren etc put in - and the pressure he is under irl (although I didn't know this at the time ofc) - but I do not want to be in a coalition where ppls protests are not considered and yes I am quite vocal often in sticking up for my guildies

apparantly last night this was wrong - I did get quite a bit of stick afterwards and heard several unflattering comments were expressed - being accused of childishness etc and being lectured by the ppl I help stick up for as an officer kinda was too much for me - but it helped me decide to take a back seat now

I do know a whole heap of complaints and comments are made often by ppl about the raids/certain players etc - but if ppl are happy not to make these clear and don't want their views heard then that is the majority swing of attitude and I will do my best also to pretend all is well and nice and its all fluffy kittens and hugs...

however - I would like to step down from any officer role now - I feel this would be appropriate

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Yes Turth disagreements CAN be good. It's bound to happen in a group that people disagree over things. The problem with your 'go with the flow' attitude is that it builds up. Alot of people were annoyed yesterday at the sudden change and clearly expressed that and it seems that Tizzi, Theseus and me were the only ones saying something about it in raidchat. There have been some more little annoyences from people lately, but everyone just goes with the flow, only speeking out in guildchat. Those things build up and are bound to explode someday. In a way i'm glad yesterday happened because things did blow up in some sort of way. Luckely not in a bad way but that could just as easy have happened. If there is a problem it should be fixed. And the only way to fix it is to talk about it.

Some people express their opinions sooner then others, i know that. One of the reasons i love Tizz so much is that she always speeks out. I don't always agree with her but thats not a problem. For me if there was only 1 officer to be appointed it would be Tizzi, by far. No disrespect to any of the others, but what Tizzi does is what a guild needs if you ask me. She expresses her own opinions but also opinions of other people.

So Turth, what Tizzi did wasn't rash. Being called childish when you stand up for your principals isn't exactly a nice thing. Thats more of a slap in the face if you ask me. If you want to go with the flow thats fine with me, but don't complain about it either then. Thats just gossiping behind someone's back.

And Tizzi, please reconsider stepping down as an officer. I really wouldn't want that to happen, because as i said, you're the most important person for me.

As i already said last night, don't judge to harse on other people........ that goes for all of us.......

Those who called you childish last nigth probably never knew what was already irritating you upfront...

Problem of ingame chat is you don't see or hear people.... at least 70% of communication goes by bodylanguage and intonation of your voice... non of that is audible or visible in guildchat... there for its very easy to mis-interpret the things being said.....

I would appreciate it if we all.. and i mean everyone in this guild think about that....

I think it also would be wise if people have serious problems with other peoples attitude in raid or whatever that they have one fixed person to address with those remarks/complaints... (normally that would be the GM i guess)

If all coalition guilds would do the same you won't get into endless guildchat discussions about who is or aint playing right, who always fracks up the raid. blah blah blah....

those "communication officers"of all coalition guilds would know who to speak to when having a problem.......and there would be much less irritation between people and guilds....

I say we have a very good looking coalition right now.....

Lets not spoil this over this event... (it happened, it wasn't good at all, not for any of the coalition, but we need to go on)

Lets all try and learn a lesson out of this....

And speak up in honesty for yourselfs... but i guess we should always try and do this in a positive way.. it very easy to say what is wrong... but always try and think what would be the right way and then speak up...

And as for a very personal remark to you Tizz

I think everybody appreciates what you do for the guild a lot.... (probably more then they express it anyway..)

Those who speak up loudly always get the first blows... thats who you are.. you said it yourself.. you dont wanne be the one that goes with the flow... If that is who you don't go try and pretend not to be...... You will never succeed in that...

As Wig/Wug already said... some speak up for themselves and others sooner then other people do....... that doesn't make them better or worse then others.. but it makes them more vonerable to the first blows in discussions... they often get easily labled as ... the nag, the whiner, or what ever.

I can't say this enough..... RESPECT EACH OTHER

no one is perfect(except for master Grim ofcourse) lol

we all make mistakes

learn from those mistakes

I would hate to see you take a backseat Tizz

And i'm pretty much sure that you can't stay in it anyway cause it just ain't you!!!

Twaerl

Tizz as I said to you yesterday, you prolly were the one of the few who dared to speak up loud to express what was the general feeling in our guild. the others who didn't dared to leave just didnt dare. I think that if everybody just staid in the raid then nothing would've happened and everyone just swallowed things like this for ever and ever. We are a coalition and we should have discussed about things before they happen. if that doesn't happen then there is a wrong thing happening. you dont wait untill it happened but just say so.

That is a virtue in most cases. and I think in this case def. not misplaced. (and how could u know that koren had RL trouble ) I wasn't there at that moment but I did ask a lot of people what happened and I found out that most people weren't agreeing to go to ZG in stead (as I would not have wanted cause AQ is more important to me item wise...)

those people who flamed you just didn't think wisely about what u did and just thought u flamed Koren (while they themselves can flame koren just as well in /g... but yeah thats safe...) while u were just protecting there skins and voices...

U have to remain my officer at least cause there is noone else I would like to see to protect my case (I want u as my lawyer )

dont leave as officer tizz

:P

Yes Turth disagreements CAN be good. It's bound to happen in a group that people disagree over things. The problem with your 'go with the flow' attitude is that it builds up. Alot of people were annoyed yesterday at the sudden change and clearly expressed that and it seems that Tizzi, Theseus and me were the only ones saying something about it in raidchat. There have been some more little annoyences from people lately, but everyone just goes with the flow, only speeking out in guildchat. Those things build up and are bound to explode someday. In a way i'm glad yesterday happened because things did blow up in some sort of way. Luckely not in a bad way but that could just as easy have happened. If there is a problem it should be fixed. And the only way to fix it is to talk about it.
Some people express their opinions sooner then others, i know that. One of the reasons i love Tizz so much is that she always speeks out. I don't always agree with her but thats not a problem. For me if there was only 1 officer to be appointed it would be Tizzi, by far. No disrespect to any of the others, but what Tizzi does is what a guild needs if you ask me. She expresses her own opinions but also opinions of other people.

So Turth, what Tizzi did wasn't rash. Being called childish when you stand up for your principals isn't exactly a nice thing. Thats more of a slap in the face if you ask me. If you want to go with the flow thats fine with me, but don't complain about it either then. Thats just gossiping behind someone's back.

And Tizzi, please reconsider stepping down as an officer. I really wouldn't want that to happen, because as i said, you're the most important person for me.

I meant no desrespect and feel as though disrespect has been taken from my post.

Hence the questioning nature of rash.

I havn't been around so wether or not I'm happy with the change of plans I can't do anything about because I can't start going off on one when I havn't been here. I have no say.

I don't call anyone childish in this guild.

I said I wasn't happy but I would do it anyway.

I do -not- talk behind peoples back.

Tizzi is not the only one who has made sacrifices for this guild, over a year.

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Well as a general comment I would like to add:

Leaving a raid without saying goodbye because u disagree about something can flag u as childish / immature / whining / etc...

U don't like to be treated in a specific matter so u leave. And u treat everybody else in a just as bad matter by doing so without saying goodbye.

Having said that.

Like twaerl stated, when u speak up u throw urself up for backtalk. This might not always be pretty. Those who remain silent don't take blows. Easy as that. I haven't been around long enough to witness tizzi sticking up for everyone, but I do like tizzi in her general attitude towards guildies / others. Sticking up for the rights of others is a nice thing to do. Being flamed because u do so comes with the territory. Have a night's sleep over it and work it out in the morning. U see that u THEN have knowledge of what exactly was going on @ the moment of disgrunteldness.

Koren did mention on TS that he had issues with going back from hospital to home and all. I thought it was bux speaking cuz I don't know all of ur voices yet. Dunno if any others of u heard it. This was BEFORE everyone started leaving the raid. He explained later on the forums though and then everyone knew.

In all: All large groups have these problems. They get multiplied by ppl speaking in different channels and again by having multiple groups/guilds there. As for the suggestion made by twaerl i second that motion.

When I have some issues with players in the raid, as to their behaviour / attendance. I would like a point where I can state these issues without being flamed by guildies / friends etc. ^^

*edit (meant to say leave as officer below, after reading it again I realise it might not always project that thought ^^)

So Tizz, reconsider leaving in the thick of it. U can't please everyone but the ppl u do value it.

my mistake - I wasn't logged on to TS -I don't have it on all the time as it disrupts the household - I have to listen via speakers as I have loss of focused hearing but log onto it as necessary and when grps/raids start and support TS- and sumtimes I need to be reminded - so I heard nothing of what was said throughout - I also explained in /g that I was logging and why but not in /ra (I had reasons for doing so, but am not continuing this)

So let me get this straight. It's normal and to be expected that when you try to defend people that the people you're trying to defend take a shot at you? In what world is that? Offcourse you can expect to get the blows from whatever/whoever you're opposing. But to get it from the people you're speaking for thats just normal and to be expected ???

And you want that to continue? What sane person would want to do that?

I won't anymore anyway.

I think you misunderstood it somewhere along the line Wig.

Being upfront speaking up for yourself and guildies gets you in the line of fire............... and thats just what happens.. has got nothing to do with it being acceptable or not.....

No one has mentioned it to be normal when those who you stand up for start stabbin ya in the back.........

So i think you kinda mis read it somewhere....