Equipment question

Dear Pilots,

 

I have just a little question about flying simulation battles in War Thunder, I know the most of our AAI friends playing with joysticks (Flight sticks) and a headtracking gear or with pedals.

So my question is can you guys recommend which is good and makes the beginning not so hard. Are you using pedals or just a flight stick and if yes which kind of pedals and the most important the flight stick, the market is over flutet with flight sticks and each of them are diferent.

 

And can you please so kind and leave some words about the headtracking thing? because I cn't really imagine how it works and what's important about it. I know you guys have so much experience with the full simulation flight and I will try to follow your footsteps to get a new personal expierence of flying.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your time and help.

 

p.s. the price doesn't matter so if something a little bit expensive don't worry, first I will collect some useful information.

Clonemaster

Of course we can help....

Flight Stick....

I use a Thrustmaster 16000M - The reason is because it uses Magnets and magnetic sensors to resolve stick position. This means no variable resistors to wear out or get glitchy... It has 12 base buttons (as well as the usual buttons for guns and rockets etc) giving you lots of options to control other things in the aircraft. It has a large throttle lever with a rocker switch which can be used to control the rudder, but I would suggest proper rudder pedals certainly gives you a better aviation feel. The stick also has a twist option that I don't use that also could be used to control the rudder. (In DCS P51 I use it to control the sight diameter....)

Other great sticks are the Warthog and x52 but I find these a bit to Modern Jet like for me as I only fly ww2 aircraft.

Throttle....

I use a separate throttle, replacing the Throttle part of my TM 16000M. It is a Saitek throttle quadrant and gives 3 levers (Throttle, RPM, Mixture) and 3 rocker switches giving 6 buttons. By the way there is a switch at the bottom of each throttle for things like feather the pitch or Idle Cut Off for the mixture etc...

There are some other throttles but I am not sure they are any better.

Rudder Pedals....

I use Saitek Combat pedals (not the pro ones). Pedals are a problem, because they can never fully represent the air pressure that comes back through the pedals in a real aircraft and as a result it is all too easy to over control. I set the re-centre friction on mine to maximum to a least minimise the problem.

Again their are other pedals but again I feel there is not much between any of them and they all suffer this same limitation.

Head Tracking....

Now here I do know a few things.

Firstly is the number of "Degrees of Freedom". This is the number of ways your head can actually move...

The first three are obvious - Nod and Shake give you the X and Y axis, the Z is putting one ear to your shoulder.

The next three are about moving your whole head. They are about leaning.

Lean forward - Putting your face nearer the screen

Lean to the side - Like putting your head outside the side of the cockpit

Finally, up and down - Like raising your seat and lowering it...

So, some trackers have 3 DoF and some 6 DoF

TrackIR4 is mine (The better one is TrackIR5 which is a finer degree if accuracy). It relies on a Webcam kind of device attached to your screen which is looking at your head and the 3 reflectors you are wearing, so you need to wear a cap on you head (or light device attached to your headphones). The webcam device have IR LEDs shining toward you which reflects from the cap and back into the webcam device. As you move your head the three reflectors are sensed and that gives your head position. One snag is any light behind you, as it detects that too. To sunlight coming in a window or room lighting can disrupt it... They are not cheap ($160+)

I have also bought the stuff to build an EDTracker. I have yet to build and program it but it gives 3 DoF and it is an attitude sensor like in an iPhone. It attaches to your headphones and senses your head movement sending the information back to the computer by a USB lead, so it is not affected by background lighting. But it does not sense the lean movements. Only the first three. These are cheap ($40)

Okay that will do for now and others can add to this...

Gos

Thank you very much for your reply, all in all looks really great and expensive, just pedals and flight stick is expensive, I wish someone in my region have this where I can try it. But I will collect some money to buy a complete package where is maybe the new oculus rift included. And I need probably a new desk to place every part useful in front of me. I can imagine how great it will to fly with a flight stick and pedals.

So thank you very much again and I will follow this thread if someone have additional information.

So step one collect the money.

Yep - Not cheap,

The occulys rift will not work with most flight sims for a while and how do you see your keyboard to operate gear and flap etc. It's not a complete solution yet.

Yeah this is exactly what I mean, I will feel to fly but with keyboard and mouse it's not really a feeling. Thank you for the information about oculus rift, one point to safe money

How is your desk looking like? Where is your flight stick and the throttle? Are both directly in front of you or did you put them more on the side?

 

I looked at amazon for the pedals but unfortunately they have just the pro version of it, and to save money the X52 + the saitek pedals cost together 280 euro + Track IR with cap 160 euro, so together 440 Euros

In the next life I will be born as a rich kid

 

And today I have spent a lot of time to read forums about other games where you can use a flight stick and pedals, there are not soooo many players who are using flight sticks but these guys who use this should be realy good. I have read GTA5 works with head track ir and flight stick + pedals as well. And honestly I have allready a flightstick but just asimple one, madcatz F.L.Y. 5 but this one is probably broken because is wobbeling and in the configuration not still in the centre, maybe this is not a very good product. And to controll the ruder with a flight stick is a mess, everytime I have the feeling I will brake each single bone in my hand.

 

BTW just one more question about the pedals, did they work with a normal office chair which have wheels on it? My gaming room have carpet on the ground.

Thank you very much in advance.

These are all good questions and very relevant.

Madcatz fly5 is okay but now you understand the variable resistor problem when it gets worn. That is why I use one with magnets and Hall Effect Sensors.

I find my pedals slip on the carpet quite a bit. Especially as I have them on max stiff. I must make a frame to wedge them in. A computer chair with wheels is no good. A dining table normal chairs is best. I got to sit in a Wildcat for real once and it felt just like a dining room chair!

I'll post pic of my stuff soon...

Take a look at Free Track. It's a bit like TrackIR but...... Free...... Well you need a webcam but that's all. The rest you make yourself...

I struggled, but many believe it to be excellent and as good as TrackIR...

Ok thank you very much, so for the pedals should be the best place in front of a wall and I can probably find a way to block the wheels of my chair. I think espacelie for beginners it's most important do handle it easy, and this means not to have only a flight stick, because if you are more familiarised with mouse and keayboard and switch to a flight stick the look arround is very hard and to handle each axis on a flight stick is damn hard. The mouse is in arcade and realistic pretty good to look arround but for simulation battles where you have only the cockpiet view not the best solution.

 

I read a lot of good feedbacks about the X52 flightstick from Saitek and read other good from the Thrustmaster 16000M too, but they don't leave any single words about the magnets and sensors.

About the free track IR this is a good idea to test it, I have already a webcam so I can test it. Thank you very much.

 

And seriously I really want to learn to fly with pedals and flight stick, because you have so many games where you can use it, and I read after some couple of hours of training is this easier to fly as than I use keyboard + mouse or a cojntroler of a console.

 

When I receive my salory this month, I will buy the pedals and flightstick and try to use the free track IR.

The good point is, we have a lot of players in AAI online every day, I'm sure they can give me some trainings hours and tips, And War Thunder have this training missions as well.

 

I can't await to fly

Thank you very much again for the introdduction, and as per our last conversation I have probably found a good and cheap solution for the placemant for the flight stick and throttle.

 

I found a manual guide in this forum: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12745

 

This should be the best solution for me, because you have saw my desk and before I brake my hand and arm I will try this out.

That looks interesting and may work well. Not keen on the side stick but that's just me...

The most important for me is to find a comfortable position for the flight stick and throttle, and as you already said the most deks are not created to  place a flight stick on it. And a new desk are expensive

I thinky everyone can make some pictures of his place and post here to share some ideas how it's most comfortable.