My apologies Tbar if it seemed like I had an agenda. All I meant to do was sum up what had been said but you are correct there was no mention at that time of a desire to move the site...not under that topic anyway. I had been reading several threads today and picked up the "moving site" theme from another source. Forgive me for taking what I read elsewhere and attributing it to the wrong topic. In attempting to sum up the views I may also have been guilty of some partiality. What can I say. Like yourself I am only human and sometimes say too much.
USAAC - AA Pilot Operations Forum
Post a replyWhat is wrong with our community?
89 posts
Correct redactuer and Tbar,
I in other forums and at least 2 others have commented on opening the discussion you speak of. It has been introduced as a topic of conversation.
In those same topics quite a few people have given yoo compliments and kudos,, you might like reading those...they are in at least 2 other topics today
I in other forums and at least 2 others have commented on opening the discussion you speak of. It has been introduced as a topic of conversation.
In those same topics quite a few people have given yoo compliments and kudos,, you might like reading those...they are in at least 2 other topics today
I didn?t want to add any comment to this thread or the other one about the sysops-election/ selection. Especially because it is not my beer, how you design the site and how you build up your internal hierarchy. Of course, I have an opinion about both topics but sometimes it is better to not share your opinions/ views. We have a proverb in Germany which means freely translated: ?Speech is silver, but silence is golden.? or ?A shut mouth catches no flies?.
Nevertheless I can tell you about my personal feelings, when visiting the USAAC-boards and I?m sure I share these feelings with many other german/european users:
Now we all know how proud many americans are about their country. It is part of their education to be proud, it is their mentality. I don?t want to turn this into politics and you know already, how most europeans with only half a brain do think about the actions of your current government, about its foreign policy, about its environmental policy, its oil-hunger and its willingness to even cover other countries with war, to get the needed resources and to get ?tactical military influence?in many parts of the world. We don?t need to discuss this again, its tiresome. I understand, not all americans agree with their government, not all do agree with its policies but it seems within the US- AA community a high percentage of the users do. I can live with that, I have to. After all we are here to play a game and if I would mind what ? wrote above, I wouldn?t come here, wouldn?t post. But this is not important for the game and its community, not at all. As said: I can live with that, respect your mentality and views, though I don?t share them.
You may remember that I was (and still am) a supporter of the idea to have - probably - the biggest AA-community organized on its own website. I always felt, it is important to get them going and to share work and responsibility, not only because shared work and shared responsibility is half work and half responsibilty. US american squads took part in british or german leagues/ events but they never organized their own (apart from the WS-SNL, which was the effort of a squad and not the effort of an organized community). They may wanted to organize something but simply didn?t had the platform and the tools to do it and it also seemed the american squads weren?t in agreement of each others ideas, didn?t trust each other and didn?t want members of other US squads being more ?powerful?than themselves.
Tbar stepped up. He wasn?t a member of any US-squad but part of the Tow-net organisation and therefore had, what I was looking for. An independent platform, a rather ?neutral? appearance and last but not least: experience. I thought this is a very good starting-point and still think so. Many US players appreciate what Tbar has done and still is doing. Some don?t.....why is it ?
I hope criticism is welcome as long as its constructive and not only flaming.
Political adds have been mentioned, not the design of the site as a whole.
When I - as a german european - come to this site, I notice it is designed in the colours of its nationality. It is purebread US american, in blue, red and white. Stars, stripes and eagles are scattered all over the site and you can see it not only on the site-design but also (and especially) in most signatures and avatars. I think: oh man, they?re really pride. They?re most likely the kind of americans, I don?t like very much but should I care ? After all its not my beer and it hasn?t anything to do with the game. I shouldn?t judge about - and estimate these gamers in terms to their site-design. But: many do....
Additionally, when browsing to the home-section of the site, I see political comics and adds. I don?t see them often because I?ve bookmarked the forums only and browse directly to them. I don?t know how persuasive and interactive these comics and adds are but either way it looks strange to me, that a gaming site (even one with such a proud design) feels the need to have such content on its home-page. I understand advertisement is important for the financing of the site but I would be more selective when it comes to the selection/nature of the adds.
I don?t know if this is part of the american mentality /education too but it seems to me that the administration of this site wants to be taken as serious as possible. Understandable and there are many options to enforce it.
What I find disturbing is some ?ranks? like ?Director? or ?BOD, aka Board of directors?. Is this the Bank of America or a gamer community-site ? I don?t know, maybe it is the american way and probably very useful to let the users know, how ?powerful? you are but to europeans it looks somewhat ?upblown? and rather embarrassing. You?re admins, webmasters and moderators. You are ?organizer?and ?manager?. The way you give yourselves ?ranks?that appear ?upblown? and ?inappropriate? you distance yourselves from your own community. You want to appear ?high decorated? to ?impress? your user-base.
Again: I don?t know if this part of the american mentality or the ?american way?, so I don?t have the right to judge about it. I merely report how many europeans look at - (and giggle about) it.
I want to say again, that I personally appreciate what Tbar, ToW-net organisation and its active staff have done, very much. What I wrote above has nothing to do with the game itself. You?ve asked a question, I try to answer. Please look at it as constructive criticism. I?m not attacking anyone personally, just sharing the views I have on the USAAC-site and its appearance and maybe even many american users having the same view and opinion.
I will add a comment about the sysop-selection later.
Nevertheless I can tell you about my personal feelings, when visiting the USAAC-boards and I?m sure I share these feelings with many other german/european users:
Now we all know how proud many americans are about their country. It is part of their education to be proud, it is their mentality. I don?t want to turn this into politics and you know already, how most europeans with only half a brain do think about the actions of your current government, about its foreign policy, about its environmental policy, its oil-hunger and its willingness to even cover other countries with war, to get the needed resources and to get ?tactical military influence?in many parts of the world. We don?t need to discuss this again, its tiresome. I understand, not all americans agree with their government, not all do agree with its policies but it seems within the US- AA community a high percentage of the users do. I can live with that, I have to. After all we are here to play a game and if I would mind what ? wrote above, I wouldn?t come here, wouldn?t post. But this is not important for the game and its community, not at all. As said: I can live with that, respect your mentality and views, though I don?t share them.
You may remember that I was (and still am) a supporter of the idea to have - probably - the biggest AA-community organized on its own website. I always felt, it is important to get them going and to share work and responsibility, not only because shared work and shared responsibility is half work and half responsibilty. US american squads took part in british or german leagues/ events but they never organized their own (apart from the WS-SNL, which was the effort of a squad and not the effort of an organized community). They may wanted to organize something but simply didn?t had the platform and the tools to do it and it also seemed the american squads weren?t in agreement of each others ideas, didn?t trust each other and didn?t want members of other US squads being more ?powerful?than themselves.
Tbar stepped up. He wasn?t a member of any US-squad but part of the Tow-net organisation and therefore had, what I was looking for. An independent platform, a rather ?neutral? appearance and last but not least: experience. I thought this is a very good starting-point and still think so. Many US players appreciate what Tbar has done and still is doing. Some don?t.....why is it ?
I hope criticism is welcome as long as its constructive and not only flaming.
Political adds have been mentioned, not the design of the site as a whole.
When I - as a german european - come to this site, I notice it is designed in the colours of its nationality. It is purebread US american, in blue, red and white. Stars, stripes and eagles are scattered all over the site and you can see it not only on the site-design but also (and especially) in most signatures and avatars. I think: oh man, they?re really pride. They?re most likely the kind of americans, I don?t like very much but should I care ? After all its not my beer and it hasn?t anything to do with the game. I shouldn?t judge about - and estimate these gamers in terms to their site-design. But: many do....
Additionally, when browsing to the home-section of the site, I see political comics and adds. I don?t see them often because I?ve bookmarked the forums only and browse directly to them. I don?t know how persuasive and interactive these comics and adds are but either way it looks strange to me, that a gaming site (even one with such a proud design) feels the need to have such content on its home-page. I understand advertisement is important for the financing of the site but I would be more selective when it comes to the selection/nature of the adds.
I don?t know if this is part of the american mentality /education too but it seems to me that the administration of this site wants to be taken as serious as possible. Understandable and there are many options to enforce it.
What I find disturbing is some ?ranks? like ?Director? or ?BOD, aka Board of directors?. Is this the Bank of America or a gamer community-site ? I don?t know, maybe it is the american way and probably very useful to let the users know, how ?powerful? you are but to europeans it looks somewhat ?upblown? and rather embarrassing. You?re admins, webmasters and moderators. You are ?organizer?and ?manager?. The way you give yourselves ?ranks?that appear ?upblown? and ?inappropriate? you distance yourselves from your own community. You want to appear ?high decorated? to ?impress? your user-base.
Again: I don?t know if this part of the american mentality or the ?american way?, so I don?t have the right to judge about it. I merely report how many europeans look at - (and giggle about) it.
I want to say again, that I personally appreciate what Tbar, ToW-net organisation and its active staff have done, very much. What I wrote above has nothing to do with the game itself. You?ve asked a question, I try to answer. Please look at it as constructive criticism. I?m not attacking anyone personally, just sharing the views I have on the USAAC-site and its appearance and maybe even many american users having the same view and opinion.
I will add a comment about the sysop-selection later.
I started this topic with the intention of garnering the views of US members on what they didn?t like about their site as there were some who disliked it so much that they had made the UK site their home away from home. Although it was aimed at the US community I think we should also welcome the views of our friends in other countries. In my view it never hurts to see ourselves as others see us. We may disagree with what Tulla has said about our patriotism and love of nation but let?s not rush into instant condemnation of the views he expresses. Let us rather look at what he has written for clues about why some of our countrymen also dislike the way we operate our site.
Do we want any political content on our site. My answer is a resounding no. We have enough disagreement within the game without splitting ourselves politically. Neither do I favor any other kind of advertising. I would rather contribute money directly for the upkeep of a site. If, however, I am going to contribute I want it to be towards a site that is truly our own, administered by ourselves for ourselves. I don?t want to condemn the present arrangement. I have and still do respect and admire the way TBar stepped up and built a home for us. Considering, however, the views of those who are suspicious of the arrangement it seems the time may have come for a change of venue. If, as TBar says, he has nothing to gain from the present arrangement but hard work and aggravation he should welcome such a change.
Do we take ourselves too seriously, as the Europeans seem to think? Are we creating rank structures as a means of self aggrandizement or are we simply trying to make our process democratic so that the rank and file can believe they have a say in the running of their community? Well that?s a question that only you can answer. But to answer Tulla on that point I would say that it is in the nature of human beings to seek power and influence. It is also in our nature to try and protect that power and influence. Hence do we have dictatorships, monarchies (before our UK friends get upset, I exclude constitutional monarchies) and various other forms of government in which the people have no say. Here in our community I believe we are trying to avoid any notion that we are operating secretly for the sake of a few. In an attempt to be transparent we have a rank structure that clearly delineates the responsibilities and powers of those we elect to do various jobs.
Do we need a so called Board of Directors? The name may be kind of pretentious for a gaming community but the concept is for each squad to be equally represented and have a say in the community?s affairs. Is that bad?
You don?t want each daily decision to need approval from the Directors so they appoint people to perform specific tasks on their behalf?.eg league manager, fun event manager, forum manager etc. Is that bad?
Lately, of course, the earth has been shaken by people questioning how the people who administer the game itself have been chosen. These are the people who, like TBar in the US community, stepped up to the plate and made the game what it is. Tulla, Delerieux and others are the elders who salvaged the game through a great deal of hard work and dedication. They say, with every justification, that they did all the work and they resent having their motives questioned. I think we would all feel the same way if it were us. I for one wouldn?t have the courage to suggest that they should not be our administrators. As a group they are the creators of our virtual gaming world and deserve some sort of divine status.
That thought, however, leads me to thinking about the appointment of sysops but that is the subject of another topic.
Tulla, perhaps you and I can have a debate one of these days about patriotism and nationalism. We can talk about how, when a nation considers itself to be top dog, it does a lot of barking. When it?s power begins to wane as with the British Empire and other European powers humility becomes the order of the day. Don?t worry. The day will come when the United States has to also show some humility.
Do we want any political content on our site. My answer is a resounding no. We have enough disagreement within the game without splitting ourselves politically. Neither do I favor any other kind of advertising. I would rather contribute money directly for the upkeep of a site. If, however, I am going to contribute I want it to be towards a site that is truly our own, administered by ourselves for ourselves. I don?t want to condemn the present arrangement. I have and still do respect and admire the way TBar stepped up and built a home for us. Considering, however, the views of those who are suspicious of the arrangement it seems the time may have come for a change of venue. If, as TBar says, he has nothing to gain from the present arrangement but hard work and aggravation he should welcome such a change.
Do we take ourselves too seriously, as the Europeans seem to think? Are we creating rank structures as a means of self aggrandizement or are we simply trying to make our process democratic so that the rank and file can believe they have a say in the running of their community? Well that?s a question that only you can answer. But to answer Tulla on that point I would say that it is in the nature of human beings to seek power and influence. It is also in our nature to try and protect that power and influence. Hence do we have dictatorships, monarchies (before our UK friends get upset, I exclude constitutional monarchies) and various other forms of government in which the people have no say. Here in our community I believe we are trying to avoid any notion that we are operating secretly for the sake of a few. In an attempt to be transparent we have a rank structure that clearly delineates the responsibilities and powers of those we elect to do various jobs.
Do we need a so called Board of Directors? The name may be kind of pretentious for a gaming community but the concept is for each squad to be equally represented and have a say in the community?s affairs. Is that bad?
You don?t want each daily decision to need approval from the Directors so they appoint people to perform specific tasks on their behalf?.eg league manager, fun event manager, forum manager etc. Is that bad?
Lately, of course, the earth has been shaken by people questioning how the people who administer the game itself have been chosen. These are the people who, like TBar in the US community, stepped up to the plate and made the game what it is. Tulla, Delerieux and others are the elders who salvaged the game through a great deal of hard work and dedication. They say, with every justification, that they did all the work and they resent having their motives questioned. I think we would all feel the same way if it were us. I for one wouldn?t have the courage to suggest that they should not be our administrators. As a group they are the creators of our virtual gaming world and deserve some sort of divine status.
That thought, however, leads me to thinking about the appointment of sysops but that is the subject of another topic.Tulla, perhaps you and I can have a debate one of these days about patriotism and nationalism. We can talk about how, when a nation considers itself to be top dog, it does a lot of barking. When it?s power begins to wane as with the British Empire and other European powers humility becomes the order of the day. Don?t worry. The day will come when the United States has to also show some humility.
So Xena, Next Saturday Morning, When you are drinking your coffee and having breakfast, maybe you should read the news paper or watch tv or something. JUST STAY AWAY FROM THE PC. 
Just kidding, I think this is the kind of forum that we should all take a good look at. It might show us some of our weakness, or areas where we might be lacking. I myself don't see many problems other than outside trouble makers, which will always be a problem unless they get there way.
As far as the U.S.A. is concerned Tulla, National pride is something that I see we are lacking and we need more of. We are the world leader, not because we asked to be, but because other countries forced us to be. I say red white and blue, through and through. If you can't have pride in your country then you shouldn't live there. Go start your own country if you please. As I stated before what we have may not be perfect, but it works, and it has done us well for over 200 years.
I don't always agree, I don't always get my way, but I don't complain about it much either. If you want change get out and vote. That's what I do.
As far as the USAAC having a BoD. I believe that in order to have anything that functions well it has to have some form of leadership structure. That doesn't mean that a few people are in control. Our BoD is the organization that makes us function. The voice of the squad and the people. We do organize fun events and are working on league events. No one person has control over everything which is the really nice thing. If we don't like something we vote on it. If we don't want someone in a position we nominate someone and vote. Yes, the general public of the game have that same opportunity to sit in on our meetings bring up agenda item to be discussed and voted on. The system works, not perfect, but nothing rarely is, except for my mom's apple pie.
JoKeR
Just kidding, I think this is the kind of forum that we should all take a good look at. It might show us some of our weakness, or areas where we might be lacking. I myself don't see many problems other than outside trouble makers, which will always be a problem unless they get there way.
As far as the U.S.A. is concerned Tulla, National pride is something that I see we are lacking and we need more of. We are the world leader, not because we asked to be, but because other countries forced us to be. I say red white and blue, through and through. If you can't have pride in your country then you shouldn't live there. Go start your own country if you please. As I stated before what we have may not be perfect, but it works, and it has done us well for over 200 years.
I don't always agree, I don't always get my way, but I don't complain about it much either. If you want change get out and vote. That's what I do.
As far as the USAAC having a BoD. I believe that in order to have anything that functions well it has to have some form of leadership structure. That doesn't mean that a few people are in control. Our BoD is the organization that makes us function. The voice of the squad and the people. We do organize fun events and are working on league events. No one person has control over everything which is the really nice thing. If we don't like something we vote on it. If we don't want someone in a position we nominate someone and vote. Yes, the general public of the game have that same opportunity to sit in on our meetings bring up agenda item to be discussed and voted on. The system works, not perfect, but nothing rarely is, except for my mom's apple pie.
JoKeR
hey Inferno,
I couldn't agree more !! Its time for USA Air Attack forum to have its own home. We should be independent, not piggy backing off Tides of War site and forums. Uk Air Attack, German Air Attack, and Korean Air Attack all have their own home, but USA Air Attack. We been sleeping over at some one's place for the past 2 years sort of speak. They are many out there that feel the same way, but they don't even come here because of its on the Tides Of War site and forums. I remember all the slack when USA Air Attack forums was first put on Tides of War forums. Not many liked that idea. Then the higher up officials were working on our own site and forum, but for some reason it never got finish. And don't even get me started why in world we have so many Board of Directors for USA Air Attack forum, which our forum is somewhere within the Tides of War forums. I know the reason behind so many board of directors. The owner figured the more people he hand pick for his board of directors they would back him up on anything. Meaning because he hand picked them, that they feel graceful for being picked and would vote on every thing in his favor. So after 2 years, lots of people complaint in the past, but USA Air Attack site still on Tides of War site and forums. Sorry but I strongly believe USA Air Attack should be independent , not piggy backing off Tides of War site and forums. Also the forums we have now are a mess, too huge. Tons of forums within forums on Tides of War forums. Oh I forgot something, I ask in the past what was the true amount of members on the board of directors but was told NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!! So once again how many do we have on the board of directors for USA Air Attack ? I am guessing we have between 8 to 12 board members.
thanks,
Nitro
I couldn't agree more !! Its time for USA Air Attack forum to have its own home. We should be independent, not piggy backing off Tides of War site and forums. Uk Air Attack, German Air Attack, and Korean Air Attack all have their own home, but USA Air Attack. We been sleeping over at some one's place for the past 2 years sort of speak. They are many out there that feel the same way, but they don't even come here because of its on the Tides Of War site and forums. I remember all the slack when USA Air Attack forums was first put on Tides of War forums. Not many liked that idea. Then the higher up officials were working on our own site and forum, but for some reason it never got finish. And don't even get me started why in world we have so many Board of Directors for USA Air Attack forum, which our forum is somewhere within the Tides of War forums. I know the reason behind so many board of directors. The owner figured the more people he hand pick for his board of directors they would back him up on anything. Meaning because he hand picked them, that they feel graceful for being picked and would vote on every thing in his favor. So after 2 years, lots of people complaint in the past, but USA Air Attack site still on Tides of War site and forums. Sorry but I strongly believe USA Air Attack should be independent , not piggy backing off Tides of War site and forums. Also the forums we have now are a mess, too huge. Tons of forums within forums on Tides of War forums. Oh I forgot something, I ask in the past what was the true amount of members on the board of directors but was told NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!! So once again how many do we have on the board of directors for USA Air Attack ? I am guessing we have between 8 to 12 board members.
thanks,
Nitro
Nitro,
To answere your question about the makeup of the BOD for the 20th time this has been mentioned I will try and explain to you what the BOD is.
The Board of Directors are made up of 2 Members of each US Squad that sends to the meetings to represent them with any issues that that Squad has, also the meeting is open to the general public to voice there own concerns on isssues if they do not belong to a Squad.
So do the math, US Squads X 2 = BOD
So easy a caveman can do it, lol......
To answere your question about the makeup of the BOD for the 20th time this has been mentioned I will try and explain to you what the BOD is.
The Board of Directors are made up of 2 Members of each US Squad that sends to the meetings to represent them with any issues that that Squad has, also the meeting is open to the general public to voice there own concerns on isssues if they do not belong to a Squad.
So do the math, US Squads X 2 = BOD
So easy a caveman can do it, lol......
To Answer your question Nitro about the BoD The BoD is consisted of two members of each USA registered squad they are designated by the squad and are the voice for each squad. The Director is the voice of the people or the general public.
As of this point in time we have 9 members on the BoD. (4 Squads and 1 Director). If you wish to know more, please feel free to attend our BoD meetings. They are held once a month on USAAC Team Speak. The general public also has time allotted to them so the can be heard.
JoKeR
As of this point in time we have 9 members on the BoD. (4 Squads and 1 Director). If you wish to know more, please feel free to attend our BoD meetings. They are held once a month on USAAC Team Speak. The general public also has time allotted to them so the can be heard.
JoKeR
Kid, Action, and Popgun been board members for a very long time, and they all were on USHA squad. That's 3 board members I know of from that squad, so might be more since, but once again what is the total amount of board of directors members we have ? I never could get a straight answer on that. Not sure why that such a big sercet.Nitro,
To answer your question about the makeup of the BOD for the 20th time this has been mentioned I will try and explain to you what the BOD is.
The Board of Directors are made up of 2 Members of each US Squad that sends to the meetings to represent them with any issues that that Squad has, also the meeting is open to the general public to voice there own concerns on issues if they do not belong to a Squad.
So do the math, US Squads X 2 = BOD
So easy a caveman can do it, lol......
Nitro,
Popgun in not in USHA anymore, he is with BBC.
When USHA_Kid was elected as Director he became the voice of the people. USHA_Inferno became the replacement voice for USHA.
The director only vote on issues when there is a tied vote to break the tie.
Nothing is a secret here.
JoKeR
Popgun in not in USHA anymore, he is with BBC.
When USHA_Kid was elected as Director he became the voice of the people. USHA_Inferno became the replacement voice for USHA.
The director only vote on issues when there is a tied vote to break the tie.
Nothing is a secret here.
JoKeR