LoL ok ok, I got one...............
You're gonna laugh..........
What if........Stalin had died.......and FDR lived?
Huh huh?!?!
That means.....FDR would have served 4 terms.......maybe been re elected.......hmm that sounds sorta like a Dictatorship doesn't it?
Interesting..........
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Hey, great thread here, folks. A lot of good ideas and thoughts. I'm new here but I have a pretty good military history background and a nice personal military history library. I would be willing to give this a go, with anyone that is interested in contributing.
From my first post on the multiplayer forum:
If others could provide me with all the known basic facts about the 1937 world situation that is presently available, such as USA in Singapore (now, that's gonna be hard to explain!) and the Empire controlling the Falklands, I will try to use information from the historic situation in 1916 and project the alternate world as it could possibly exist on a world map. Perhaps this would give us some sort of starting or reference point.............or light a fire under someone's rear to show us what they actually had in mind
. At least it might provide a pool of information at one place where we could more accuratly construct the 1937 world.
I'm new at this game (but love it already), but many of you folks have been playing it for months. Please share any tidbits of news or hints that have been revealed about the state of the 1937 world. I'm not asking for details, just names and places, etc, that would be represented on a map.
SeaWolf
From my first post on the multiplayer forum:
If others could provide me with all the known basic facts about the 1937 world situation that is presently available, such as USA in Singapore (now, that's gonna be hard to explain!) and the Empire controlling the Falklands, I will try to use information from the historic situation in 1916 and project the alternate world as it could possibly exist on a world map. Perhaps this would give us some sort of starting or reference point.............or light a fire under someone's rear to show us what they actually had in mind
. At least it might provide a pool of information at one place where we could more accuratly construct the 1937 world.I'm new at this game (but love it already), but many of you folks have been playing it for months. Please share any tidbits of news or hints that have been revealed about the state of the 1937 world. I'm not asking for details, just names and places, etc, that would be represented on a map.
SeaWolf
The Brits still have British Honduras it seems, though I'll bet daylight to dollars the USN has made sure there's not so much as a crumpet in the Bahamas!
lol, rgr that Torgen. You are right about the Bahamas. I picked up the Honduras thing, but was mystified as to what Imperial V-boats would be doing operating out of what one would consider a hostile port. Does the RNE still control British Guiana, Jamacia and/or Bermuda?
SeaWolf
SeaWolf
I'd say no to Bermuda and probably Jamaica, yes to Guiana. Canada seems to be nominally under German control (or maybe nuetral break-away) but harbors RNE "terrorist squads" of MTBs.
(runs like hell
)
(runs like hell
)The more we talk about this, the more clear it becomes that victory in this war is impossible. The Atlantic looks just as tangled as the Pacific at this point, so I'm convinced that all of the territorial gains were written in to make everyone as even and stalemated as possible when MP comes...
Looks to me like there will be plenty of small midnight convoys, running under darkness to evade the big capital ships, but still needing protection form those sneaky subs
Looks to me like there will be plenty of small midnight convoys, running under darkness to evade the big capital ships, but still needing protection form those sneaky subs
Bah. The Werltreich has essentially all of Europe, much of Atlantic-bordered Africa, and south america.
Aside from Malta, Egypt/suez and the rest of the Med, they're in pretty good standing.
Except for the bloody americans and Ireland. But the canadians are between the two.
Aside from Malta, Egypt/suez and the rest of the Med, they're in pretty good standing.
Except for the bloody americans and Ireland. But the canadians are between the two.
I'd think that it was something like this.
The Canadians are scared to death by the USA, but honor-bound to side with the King. But who is King? George was forced out, and Edward has been denounced by George. This is confusing enough, but the Canadians side with George, because Edward gave up the British Isles (sans Ireland). The Canadians don't like the fact that they are essentally defenseless against the Americans, but since the Americans are percived as the ones who didn't pitch in to save the British Empire, they are despised by most. They (Canada) feel that the LFN is too extended to defend the country (Western Canada would fall fast, and I really can't see the Canadian Army holding out for long in the East either), so they decide to call in the Germans. Quebec disagrees and trys to secede, but they are too weak. However, the last thing the US wants is an LFN or German presence on the vast northern border, and since none of the major powers are interested in a real war, the Germans abstain from occupying Canada. This weak endorsement pretty much guarantees that Canada won't fall under arms, but the LFN, which would most definately want a few Western Canadian shipyards and bases (supported by the construction of some ships in Canadian yards, warfleet.net), has apperently won the right to base some forces in Canada. If I had to guess, I'd venture that the RNE is active in Canada, but seeing as how the British Army got the $#!^ kicked out of it in Europe, and the Japanese Army is busy in Asia, the chances of a massive Canadian land battle are remote.
The LFN problably still controls south and central Africa, especially the coasts. Maybe even the Azores, supported by all those tankers near those islands. Theey also retain bases in Belize and some of the souther Caribbeans, but the US, which at the very least has power over Cuba and Puerto Rico, has secured the northern islands. Jamacia, the Virgin Islands, and the Bahamas would be lightly armed bastions with maybe a few ships, but they could not conduct offensive ops, as they would have a supply nightmare. For South America, the LFN is split with the Germans, with the GE ruling or "allied" with Argentina, and the LFN allied with Chile, Peru, and the rest of the northern nations. Brazil would probably be independent, and neutral (kind of like Switzerland). In Asia, the LFN rules China by way of Japanese expansion, but the Russians, who have split into Red Communists and white Capitalists, are neutral yet protective. So they have a (relativly) secure northern border. The situation in the Mid-East is bad, as the Germans control Turkey and possibly Iraq, forcing the LFN into Egypt (their last Northern stronghold, as Gibraltar is just a fort with little power, and the Germans are threatening the Canal, or it may already be useless. If the Germans also control Arabia, then the Africans are cut off, or at least the LFN has to divert a lot of escort to making the convoy routes safe from German raiders based in present-day Yemen/Oman. This also gives the Germans an extra supply of oil, leaving them with 2 sources (Rumania and Iraq), the US with 2 (West Continental/ Alaska) and the LFN with only the East Indies (which are scheduled to be given to Germany in the 1940s by the Treaty of Berlin, but they will have to be protected by the LFN, unless the LFN takes Siberia, which would only add to their military troubles. The US "protectorate" in Malaysia and the Phillipeans makes the LFN go far out of their way to get from Africa/Australia/Asia to Japan/China-Hong Kong/Canada (the LFN power base), so the LFN has to copy all the Japanese infastructure that they (presumably) relied upon the British Isles to have when the Empire was real. Also, since the north relies upon oil shipped through the American blockade (with bases in the Carolines, Marianas, Wake, Samoa, Aluetians), the LFN has to constantly build oilers to make up for American attrition. So you have a navy that is tasked with keeping Africa in the game while defending against IGN raids, getting raw materials and oil to the Japanese Home Islands, which requires more escorts and ships, and keeping the Americans respectful. Although China has metal, strong Canadian support would alliviate a few of these problems, esp. oil. The Atlantic force would not be more than a harrassment group, with the task of keeping the South Atlantic from becoming an IGN/USN lake. The LFN is at the least favorable position, but they're not out.
The US is in a tough spot too. They have a homeland that is bordered by chaos (Mexico, although the US Army is probably peacekeeping there, and the Mexicans would be allied with the USA) and a weak LFN military, plus a small Canadian Army. However, land forces in North America are overwhelmingly favorable to the USA, so the Canadians have nothing to gain and everything to lose, while the US might even welcome an excuse to take Canada out of the game, therefore screwing the LFN even more, and knocking down any German plans for Canada. The USN controls Morocco, as stated in the game, but this hold is just a grasp on the African continent, mostly a check on the Germans, but more a threat to the LFN, as they are the ones who really want a South African stronghold. The US has to keep Morocco strong, so figure a large fleet in the mid-Atlantic, staging from the Canary Islands.The US really has no plans for Europe, and until the LFN sinks the Wren, the GE and USA are trying to reconcile their differences. However, the US is also poking the GE in the Caribbean, where the IGN is contesting the sea from bases in French Guyana (where the European Space Center is). Figure that they also own all the non-British colonies in the Caribbean in 1914. This makes the USN responsible for limiting the LFN convoys from Belize to Africa, protecting the Canal, and keeping the Germans from moving serious forces like a battlecruiser into the South Atlantic/Caribbean. Still, this is mostly a destroyer war, with all three powers maintaining substantial air power in the area. Then you have the North Atlantic. Canada-based light warships threaten US assets, so a fleet has to guard the merchants. Then you have the Germans, who are not fans of the US-supported Irish Republic, which is the only part of Europe sans Spain/Portugal that is not pro-German or neutral. The Irish would take a lot to defend, considering their proximity to Europe, so a US fleet in Iceland is plausible. Then the USN has its Pacific obligations. They have to maintain an isolated area (Singapore/Philippeans), protect it from a three-sided attack, and cut Australia off from direct shipping to Japan. They also have to keep the Northwest reasonably free of LFN assets, and the Aluetians safe. Singapore and Manila are major fleet and Army bases, but the US presumably only sends expendable forces into those bases (destroyers, cruisers at best) keeping the carriers out of harm's way. The US is balanced, with few real deficiencies, however, it could be costly to start a war in Asia. Peace is in the US's best interests, but the LFN needs war between the US and the GE to get back into Europe, so the US walks a tightrope.
The IGN is essentially a holding force. The GE has gotten all of Europe it wants, and with a few exeptions like Gibraltar and Ireland, the empire has a clean sweep. Africa is fustrating, but the Germans really don't need it, it's the principle of the thing. Middle Eastern oil supports Germany, and the Russians are quiet, so the Army is holding their new gains. The German Navy's only missions aside from showing the flag and defense are harrassing the LFN in the Atlantic and keeping the Americans from taking too much of the globe. They are the strongest prewar power.
That's my version of Enigma.
The Canadians are scared to death by the USA, but honor-bound to side with the King. But who is King? George was forced out, and Edward has been denounced by George. This is confusing enough, but the Canadians side with George, because Edward gave up the British Isles (sans Ireland). The Canadians don't like the fact that they are essentally defenseless against the Americans, but since the Americans are percived as the ones who didn't pitch in to save the British Empire, they are despised by most. They (Canada) feel that the LFN is too extended to defend the country (Western Canada would fall fast, and I really can't see the Canadian Army holding out for long in the East either), so they decide to call in the Germans. Quebec disagrees and trys to secede, but they are too weak. However, the last thing the US wants is an LFN or German presence on the vast northern border, and since none of the major powers are interested in a real war, the Germans abstain from occupying Canada. This weak endorsement pretty much guarantees that Canada won't fall under arms, but the LFN, which would most definately want a few Western Canadian shipyards and bases (supported by the construction of some ships in Canadian yards, warfleet.net), has apperently won the right to base some forces in Canada. If I had to guess, I'd venture that the RNE is active in Canada, but seeing as how the British Army got the $#!^ kicked out of it in Europe, and the Japanese Army is busy in Asia, the chances of a massive Canadian land battle are remote.
The LFN problably still controls south and central Africa, especially the coasts. Maybe even the Azores, supported by all those tankers near those islands. Theey also retain bases in Belize and some of the souther Caribbeans, but the US, which at the very least has power over Cuba and Puerto Rico, has secured the northern islands. Jamacia, the Virgin Islands, and the Bahamas would be lightly armed bastions with maybe a few ships, but they could not conduct offensive ops, as they would have a supply nightmare. For South America, the LFN is split with the Germans, with the GE ruling or "allied" with Argentina, and the LFN allied with Chile, Peru, and the rest of the northern nations. Brazil would probably be independent, and neutral (kind of like Switzerland). In Asia, the LFN rules China by way of Japanese expansion, but the Russians, who have split into Red Communists and white Capitalists, are neutral yet protective. So they have a (relativly) secure northern border. The situation in the Mid-East is bad, as the Germans control Turkey and possibly Iraq, forcing the LFN into Egypt (their last Northern stronghold, as Gibraltar is just a fort with little power, and the Germans are threatening the Canal, or it may already be useless. If the Germans also control Arabia, then the Africans are cut off, or at least the LFN has to divert a lot of escort to making the convoy routes safe from German raiders based in present-day Yemen/Oman. This also gives the Germans an extra supply of oil, leaving them with 2 sources (Rumania and Iraq), the US with 2 (West Continental/ Alaska) and the LFN with only the East Indies (which are scheduled to be given to Germany in the 1940s by the Treaty of Berlin, but they will have to be protected by the LFN, unless the LFN takes Siberia, which would only add to their military troubles. The US "protectorate" in Malaysia and the Phillipeans makes the LFN go far out of their way to get from Africa/Australia/Asia to Japan/China-Hong Kong/Canada (the LFN power base), so the LFN has to copy all the Japanese infastructure that they (presumably) relied upon the British Isles to have when the Empire was real. Also, since the north relies upon oil shipped through the American blockade (with bases in the Carolines, Marianas, Wake, Samoa, Aluetians), the LFN has to constantly build oilers to make up for American attrition. So you have a navy that is tasked with keeping Africa in the game while defending against IGN raids, getting raw materials and oil to the Japanese Home Islands, which requires more escorts and ships, and keeping the Americans respectful. Although China has metal, strong Canadian support would alliviate a few of these problems, esp. oil. The Atlantic force would not be more than a harrassment group, with the task of keeping the South Atlantic from becoming an IGN/USN lake. The LFN is at the least favorable position, but they're not out.
The US is in a tough spot too. They have a homeland that is bordered by chaos (Mexico, although the US Army is probably peacekeeping there, and the Mexicans would be allied with the USA) and a weak LFN military, plus a small Canadian Army. However, land forces in North America are overwhelmingly favorable to the USA, so the Canadians have nothing to gain and everything to lose, while the US might even welcome an excuse to take Canada out of the game, therefore screwing the LFN even more, and knocking down any German plans for Canada. The USN controls Morocco, as stated in the game, but this hold is just a grasp on the African continent, mostly a check on the Germans, but more a threat to the LFN, as they are the ones who really want a South African stronghold. The US has to keep Morocco strong, so figure a large fleet in the mid-Atlantic, staging from the Canary Islands.The US really has no plans for Europe, and until the LFN sinks the Wren, the GE and USA are trying to reconcile their differences. However, the US is also poking the GE in the Caribbean, where the IGN is contesting the sea from bases in French Guyana (where the European Space Center is). Figure that they also own all the non-British colonies in the Caribbean in 1914. This makes the USN responsible for limiting the LFN convoys from Belize to Africa, protecting the Canal, and keeping the Germans from moving serious forces like a battlecruiser into the South Atlantic/Caribbean. Still, this is mostly a destroyer war, with all three powers maintaining substantial air power in the area. Then you have the North Atlantic. Canada-based light warships threaten US assets, so a fleet has to guard the merchants. Then you have the Germans, who are not fans of the US-supported Irish Republic, which is the only part of Europe sans Spain/Portugal that is not pro-German or neutral. The Irish would take a lot to defend, considering their proximity to Europe, so a US fleet in Iceland is plausible. Then the USN has its Pacific obligations. They have to maintain an isolated area (Singapore/Philippeans), protect it from a three-sided attack, and cut Australia off from direct shipping to Japan. They also have to keep the Northwest reasonably free of LFN assets, and the Aluetians safe. Singapore and Manila are major fleet and Army bases, but the US presumably only sends expendable forces into those bases (destroyers, cruisers at best) keeping the carriers out of harm's way. The US is balanced, with few real deficiencies, however, it could be costly to start a war in Asia. Peace is in the US's best interests, but the LFN needs war between the US and the GE to get back into Europe, so the US walks a tightrope.
The IGN is essentially a holding force. The GE has gotten all of Europe it wants, and with a few exeptions like Gibraltar and Ireland, the empire has a clean sweep. Africa is fustrating, but the Germans really don't need it, it's the principle of the thing. Middle Eastern oil supports Germany, and the Russians are quiet, so the Army is holding their new gains. The German Navy's only missions aside from showing the flag and defense are harrassing the LFN in the Atlantic and keeping the Americans from taking too much of the globe. They are the strongest prewar power.
That's my version of Enigma.
Very interesting analysis, Quebec is indeed LFN biased, but BC is staunchly IGN/Britain - loyalty to the homeland, not the King necessarily. LFN is also not strong enough to keep USA out. Resulting arguments mean Civil War in Canada.
Just a quick note, we have an entire game on the boards (90% design complete) that takes place on the Great Lakes and involves battle between the states and Canada including the destruction of Duluth, the bombing and occupation of Toronto by the USA and some other juicy bits (all taken from real history).
--East
Just a quick note, we have an entire game on the boards (90% design complete) that takes place on the Great Lakes and involves battle between the states and Canada including the destruction of Duluth, the bombing and occupation of Toronto by the USA and some other juicy bits (all taken from real history).
--East
Wooden ships? Pirates of the Caribbean was disappointing, but Enigma II and a game with sailing ships and an Enigma-like feel are on my get list.