Healz0rrrr.....

lol, k, link to a long post - sum nice maths/stats at start for those who like numbers - basically its a 'who is better healer drood or priest' thread (yawn) but bits of decent comment here n there - and esp for turth - see post number 22 for spirit/regen ting

http://forums.worldofwar.net/showthread.php?t=345351&pp=10

my opinion? - they all have a role to play aint even touching th 'who is better' thing - its irrelevant - used to be - who is better in mc? healadin, priest or drood? silliness - all have their bonus points and all were needed and used to full effect - in any grp or raid or whatever - I just want someone who knows how to play their class and makes good use of their skills, gear, their role in relation to grp - have seen ppl in mostly greens outplay ppl with epics - as always, its th person behind the toon that makes th most difference

and - because of th recent kerfuffle in guild and mucho whispering etc and NO posts or info being offered to concerned ppl, leading to more mutterings n mumblings n whisperings....

a short discussion took place recently in /gu on general priest specc - this became more directed at Horrible (gm) - it resulted in him leaving - it was very brief, Horrible is now in Feral Instinct atm - a coalition guild and still joins us all on raids etc

summary - horrible was originally made as we lacked healers (still do) - but he enjoys shadow specc and is sticking with it - this was commented on - a shadow priest CAN heal sufficiently for most situations but will struggle in endgame as they will oom v fast and will not be able to cope with th amount of healing needed - same thing with feral vs resto druid - in most grps this is never a big problem but in a lot of endgame situations having a heal-specced main healer or 4 is pretty essential - we can have lots of mix n match of talents/specs but we do need some ppl specc'd to take on essential roles - tanking tanks, healing healers kinda thing - and no i am not saying all warriors must be tanks-prot spec etc - but we always need at least a cupl that are

hoping th whispers n rumours etc are gonna settle down fast now and we can play the game and have fun

Hi,

Exactly my point Tizz.

I have no problem at all with priests being shadow specced. I have a lvl 40 priest myself and have invested some points in shadow myself as it makes solo-ing way easier. However when i get to 60 i will respec to holy or disc or both (not sure yet, waiting for new patch to see what will work best).

The reason i do this is because it is needed by the team in endgame instances. I respecced my mage from fire to frost for the exact same reason. I loved being fire/arcane and the damage you can do at that time, but frost gives you more control and survivability and thats what the team needs (on a sidenote i came to love frost/arcane now and don't know if i would respec).

As i see see it people have to make a choice. They either go for grinding/pvp or go for endgame instances. If you go for endgame instances you should do your best to benefit the team. Endgame is all about teamwork and to be honest failing to do what is needed most is just a slap in the face to the rest of the team. You want the benefits of the team (e.g. epics i assume) so you should help the team aswell.

I know a shadow priest is heavenly in PvP. I've dualed a few and got my ass kicked bad. Thats why i don't have a problem with a shadow priest. As long as he stays in PvP or only does Scholo/Strat/LBRS kinda instances (as a shadow priest can heal sufficient there as Tizzi pointed out).

When he does want to go ZG, MC etc he should respec until we have enough priests who want to stay holy/disc. I know i won't mind being a healbot and i know of a few others who don't mind already, maybe even like it that way. When we have enough priests that are holy/disc its even good to have a shadow priest along, as it can give warlocks a nice bonus to their damage.

This discussion was started about priests, because the difference between a shadow and holy priest is very obvious, but the same goes for all classes really. If you want to be a part of a team you should act in a way thats best for the team and not what best for you.

*edit, just thought of something to compare it with

It's just the same as a soccer player that keeps on kicking the ball in his own goal because he likes the sound of the ball hitting the net. The player is happy but the team loses*

might be wrong here, but we kicked a ZG boss with 1 shadow priest (me) and a few druids/shamans.

I play this game because i like to play all kinds of differents aspects of it.

That means pvp, solo grinding, instances and endgame raids.

In this list i have 3 things that can work very good as me being shadow priest and 2 things that would go well as holy priest.

The most important thing for me is the fact that i enjoy being shadowpriest very much.

When we had lack of healers i even respecced Bratac to healing bot.

From that point i couldn't grind solo anymore and pvp was out of the question.

When we are doing endgame raids i can't do more then my best to keep everyone alive. But i don't think it's fair that other people dictate how i should play my caracters.

now some example from my side:

Tryed to get Bratacs epic helm lots of times with a real tank as i would say that suits best in instance run. Did that about 8 to 9 times.

Never been able to get the quest done.

Latest atemp was with an arms specced warrior.......made it in 1 try !!

So get off my back

I am sorry to leave the guild, for all those fine people in it.

By joining Feral Instinct i am still in the alliance and can participade in future runs.

But i won't let my fun be spoiled by a few people whining about my choices.

Love ya all and Love Death Angels

Horrible / Bratac / rotten

mostly its the person behind the keyboard and your gear. I have a shaadow priest and they can heal damn fine if they have good gear and good skills. though i stopped at 31 points and started putting the rest in disp.

I believe that rotten has enough exp healing from shammy

However im going to blunt here. You need better stuff.

IMO devout sucks, high intellect is good for short fights, mana regen is the only way to go for raiding because after the maths is done you technically end up with more intellect. Also resurgance rod wont cut it(i didnt inspect horrible i just looked at the skin). Dm is commonly held as the place best place to get mana regen and if i still played my priest id be living in the place. Consider raid instance's endurance wars, who ever ooms first loses. Each wipe probably costs the raid 8-15g.

I specd tank because I am a defensive player in any game and prefer to wear an opponent down by a war of attrition. This has had a benefit in this game in that people activily seak me out for instances, though I have been turning them down alot more recently because I have been running with my own guildies, who I may say are the best groups I've ever played with on any server, the teamwork stuns me somtimes.

As with tanks and your epic helm, its the person nbehind the keyboard. Spec can help retards (no apologies because after months I am beyond compassion sorry if its put down to strongly) tank if they are prot. Koren can tank damn fine with 15 points in prot is the best example

Most of the warriors you did epic helm quest with probably fall in that category of not seeing past mortal strike. I am willing to bet buxon could have did a better job tanking.

My 2c

Yes Horrible we did beat the boss in ZG, but several people died. All this due to the MT dying and the boss charging. Why did the main tank die? Because there wasn't enough healing on him. And the snake boss is only the easiest of them all. We didn't take the bat lady, not even with more priests and a few druids/shamans. And did you forgot about the boss in Silithus we tried with 40 man last week (and tonight again). Multiple healers there and all out of mana.

In last ubrs run i was watching your mana bar and black's. Yours was almost gone when black's was only halfway trough it. Thats the difference between a heal bot and a nuker.

As Bratac you specced as a healbot you say, nevertheless i saw you standing in front of the group and hitting on the mob all the time. Even caused us alot of wipes, because the second you cast a heal after hitting the mob for some time you're aggro build-up is so huge that he went for you. There have been many occassions that you as a 'healbot' was the first to die and this was not due to a bad tank, but you taking double aggro from hitting and healing.

As for the shammy helm you can't compare the groups. Offcourse people have gotten better at what they do, but don't forget about gear you wear. I've done a few attempts with you on that helm and was a fresh 60 at that time, so was most of the group. Dressed in mostly greens then. Now i have 1 green left and the difference is huge in mana and health points. Gear does matter as to what you can take on. Thats the design of the game. You can start MC with mostly blue's and pull some bosses off, but to get to the endboss and get him down you need the whole group dressed in mostly epics you get from the first bosses in MC. After MC comes Black Wing Lair. You don't stand a chance there dressed in blue's, not even on trash mobs.

As for getting of your back, i'm not on it. You can play any way you want. Just telling you that it would benefit the groups you do endgame instances with a whole lot more if you specced different (at this time because we lack healers).

You are clearly more interested in helping yourself. Fine by me but don't expect to get a place in a team if there is a choice between a healbot priest and a nuke priest when healing is what the group needs.

Spec can help retards (no apologies because after months I am beyond compassion sorry if its put down to strongly) tank if they are prot. Koren can tank damn fine with 15 points in prot is the best example

Turth (i suspect guest is Turth ),

There still is quite a difference between you and Koren. I agree he is an excellent tank. Never had a mob lose aggro on him when he was tanking. Thats his skill. But you sure last longer with less healers. Yesterday you died when the mob was almost down. The previous time we got him down Koren was tanking and he died sooner, while we had more healers then. I think the main reason for that is that every talent point you have and every piece you wear is taken with the idea in mind that you have to last as long as possible, while Koren also wants to dish out some damage too every now and then.

Yes Horrible we did beat the boss in ZG, but several people died. All this due to the MT dying and the boss charging. Why did the main tank die? Because there wasn't enough healing on him. And the snake boss is only the easiest of them all.

We wiped there with more priests in group, why whine on me?

In last ubrs run i was watching your mana bar and black's. Yours was almost gone when black's was only halfway trough it. Thats the difference between a heal bot and a nuker..

We should compare healingmeters here before jump on any conclussion.

I can save my mana as well by letting black do all the healing.

As Bratac you specced as a healbot you say, nevertheless i saw you standing in front of the group and hitting on the mob all the time. Even caused us alot of wipes, because the second you cast a heal after hitting the mob for some time you're aggro build-up is so huge that he went for you. There have been many occassions that you as a 'healbot' was the first to die and this was not due to a bad tank, but you taking double aggro from hitting and healing.

Yup, ..... i need to learn as well.

Not easy for a dps shaman go to healing shaman.

As for the shammy helm you can't compare the groups. Offcourse people have gotten better at what they do, but don't forget about gear you wear. I've done a few attempts with you on that helm and was a fresh 60 at that time, so was most of the group. Dressed in mostly greens then. Now i have 1 green left and the difference is huge in mana and health points. Gear does matter as to what you can take on.

You use gear as an excuse for your bad playing and small manapool in your early 60's.

Hey.... i am 60 for 3 weeks now !!

Black is 60 for a lot longer.....when you start compare, do it fair

As for getting of your back, i'm not on it. You can play any way you want. Just telling you that it would benefit the groups you do endgame instances with a whole lot more if you specced different (at this time because we lack healers).

Like i sad before, i like to do more then only endgame.

You are clearly more interested in helping yourself. Fine by me but don't expect to get a place in a team if there is a choice between a healbot priest and a nuke priest when healing is what the group needs.

Don't we all?

You can't tell me that you do this only to help others.

You want better gear, epics, get stronger, bigger mana pool etc.

So do i

Um I'm not interested in the gear. I just want to get some endgame stuff. Gear is a means to an end for me. Not interested in parading around og on my epic black kodo and full wrath set, or posting all my raid gear in trade like some people do...If i could do it in a lvl 20 green I would...

Personally dont like meters cus they are woefully inaccurate and make lag

Expect black to save mana because he is discipline and saving mana is the trees strongest point, specially that nice inner focus+mediation(priests get more bonus from spirit).

Until the patch both tress are still woefully weak compared to shadow. But shadow is pure dps. So they are both stonger than shadow.

Your spec your choice but its my 4th choice of healer after a feral druid.

extended 2c

Back on topic. Guys seems a bit one sided and loves druids. They can heal well but flash heal is incredable and druids will never be able to compete with that or priest group heal. Priest has recovery if a fight goes bad heals are so quick and shields can save people from death. Druid has insta heal if it goes bad, one 3 minute timer. When a fight goes bad best i can hope for is to try and get a 2 second regrowth off in time.

Played both classes up to maraudon so can vouch that far

I should really sign in

You use gear as an excuse for your bad playing and small manapool in your early 60's.
Hey.... i am 60 for 3 weeks now !!

Black is 60 for a lot longer.....when you start compare, do it fair

You have a point here, Black has better gear then you so he has better manapool.

But i hope you're not gonna say you can heal just as good as a holy/disc priest. Think there has been more then enough discussion on that on every wow forum out there and the only people saying they can are shadow priests themselves.

It can't be strange that most of all raiding guilds forbid people to get into their MC team if they are shadow specced priests (or fire specced mage's for that matter). I don't want to go that road. Don't want to force anyone into doing anything.

I was just trying to start a discussion about shadow versus holy because Lost was asking about that. You got all ###### about that. The fact that you did says to me you know that respeccing would be better for our raids. Otherwise you would have laughed about it as i would if someone tried to convince me that i 'really should put all my points in fire tree as that is better for MC'.

I never said u MUST respec and no-one else has either. That was your own conclusion. You jumping out right away didn't give any of us the time or the chance to explain what we meant. I've tried to explain some of what i meant in the above replies, but you still don't get it.

You seem to think i am only out to destroy your fun in this game and thats just ridiculous. I am only trying to do the best we can as a team in endgame instances. Why? Because that is what i like. There's nothing more satisfying to me then going to bed after a very succesful run with guys/girls i gotten to know. That really is all i want. Like Turth said, getting epics for me is only a means do do better and because you need them in the next challenge. I've had 2 epic drops already and gave them both away, for nothing. That's at least an epic horse there.

And you have every right to your own opinion, but running away from some else's opinion (and i'm not alone in this, if i was i would shut up) is just the easy way.

You want to play this game your way you say, well you can't if you want to go to endgame instances. Blame Blizzard and their design of the game and classes, but don't blame me for that. The game is designed in a way that you need to have a group to get certain things done and classes are set up in a way that they all benefit from each other, but can't do anything without each other. They do that because this way they make more money out of you. Because you have to group you make some online friends and because of that you stay longer. Simple as that.

But people insisting on playing like they want to basically tell 39 others in MC to play like they do.

Or like that hunter we kicked recently. He pulled the big guy in Silithus when no-one was ready and wiped us all, because 'he didn't have all night'.