Newbie Blues

Well I have been wanting to try Enigma Rising tide for some time now, and just picked up a copy from my local software outlet. Having no tutorial, and an incomplete CD manual has gotten me off to a rocky start at best.

Some of my quandaries:

1) Critical interface issues like setting torpedo depths versus submerged targets, or setting depth charge depth are either not mentioned in the manual, or mentioned in passing without descriptions of how to accomplish this in the actual interface. (I did eventually figure out how to set depth charge depth when the + button failed to increment, and the depth field was mysteriously non-modifieable, I accidently stumpled on some silly dial I though was window dressing and noticed the depth shifted! What luck!) (As far as shooting torpedos at submerged targets, I did not even know that was possible until an AI DE sunk my submerged Salmon Class with a topedo. In fact the AI does this regularly. How its torps never miss a submerged target and never fail to be at exactly the right depth is an issue for later)

2) Ranges are very difficult to tell. at the 500 lowest radar setting it would be pretty simple if there were 5 rings as all settigns would be divisible by 10. Unfortunately there are 4 rings so is every range ring .25 * RANGE? Thus 125 meter per range ring on the closest setting?

3) Trying to sink subs with depth charges is a nightmare. I have read many of the posts regarding this and nothing seems to work. The two times I have succeded at this on training missions on easy settings were apparently blind luck. I saw someone post that AI subs always dive to 150 M so I set my charges for that and leave them there. After leading the target by a single range ring on the closest setting, and dropping a full spread I come up empty. 100 trials later nothing. How the heck the AI ALWAYS hits my sub in 1-2 charge runs is beyond comprehension. Playing a sub I never use the same depth twice yet I am always hit in 1-2 vollies. This makes depth evasion impossible, and removes one of the most critical defensive elements of the game for subs. One engineering player found an exploit that puts to use that junk we never thought we would use in grade school with the Pythagorian theorum. This of course requires the length of the hypotenuse which he obtains through an exploit involving the voice system. Kind of clunky, not real fun for something that is supposed to be entertainment, and since I have no microphone, NO GO. Another person posted sneaking up behind a sub and then dropping charges when they are one range circle behind. No dice. When you have a single FF trying to sneak up on multiple subs at different angles this does not work. When you try and flank the closest target, that presents the broad side of your ship to the others, who then fire off 10 or so torpedos so there is no evading. One of the early training missions pits a single player FF versus what 8?! subs. lol! Yeah thats training all right! Of course I do not think the most legendary naval captain of all time could survive 8 hungry subs with a lone FF... Heck I do not know why the subs even both to submerge or waste torpedos. They could all come to the surface and fire their 8 deck guns, to the FF's 1 deck gun, and save those $100k a piece torps. Because I cannot sink subs with surface ships and surface ships almost always are faced off against subs, that means I cannot play surface ships. There goes 50% of the game...

4) Sub weapons versus surface ships seem to work in a fairly logical fashion, so I have had some success there, despite the AI's ability to dodge torpedos that no human player could possibly see. (too bad the auto evade setting open to the player is no where near as effective.) Unfortunately since the AI never loses detection of a sub, and their depth charges never miss, [sure wish I could cheat like that!] defensive/evasive manuevers are pointless. Thus the sub game boils down to whether or not you can kill most of the escourts in your first salvo, then eliminate the target, or get a lucky spawn with the target right next to you so the game ends before the enemy escourts automatically destroy you. I am on the fourth or so mission in the American campaign as Silent Service, and the objectives are ridiculous. There are 30 ships on your map nearby, at least 8 of them are escourts, further there are at least 10 cargo ships that serve no purpose other than blocking your torpedos and forcing you to waste time identifying profiles you have no time for. Somehow you are supposed to find 3 oilers (not that the mission tells you that) amidst all this, kill all three of them, and survive 8 escourts full of unerring cyborg commandos. I guess I will not be getting past this mission so there goes the sub game. What's left?

Get a microphone , or better , a headset.

Discover how voice command makes this a really great game .

There is a larger " radar" asdic as well .

The manual should be complete , but find the PDf thing ,,which should be with every copy , all instructions are there too .

I think there are four oilers in that mission . Plenty in forum about it .

I set charges always to 200 , as it happens that works best , the way the game is now . Not so , later ,or in multiplayer .

I don't dive too deeply either , saves time .

Find the instructions , they must be there .

Usually in your 'all programs ' file , you'll find them .

I don't use the settings much for torpedoes ,, but setting them on zero depth seems to help against surface . and about 19 for subs .

That mission ,like some others needs a few times to try .

The raason that the following operations is not listed in the printet booklet is that they were added to the game after it went to the store (via patches):

• Depth Charge Depth Settings
• Torpedo Running Speed
• Miisc Voice Commands
• Torpedo Depth Settings
• Infact everything you can change by clicking the A, B, & C buttons.

Why should the manual tell you everything from getting your ship to move to how you sink other vessels? Would'nt it ruin all the fun of exploring what the game is capable of?

To me a complete manual is the same as a walkthru for an adventure game.

2) This can be hard in the beginning but you will soon get a feeling about the ranges.

3) There is plenty of information about how to sink subs here on the Forum

When you feel that you are being sunk everytime, it is cause the AI drops their cans in patterns, you should do the same drop a few change depth, drop a few chage....

Usually when you are approaching an AI sub, it crash dives, try it, time it, see how fast the various subs dives, that gives you some hints about when to drop cans and at what depths. and look for the airbubbles on the surface, then you know at what exact time the sub dives.

When you are in a sub:

When you the torpedo bell ring, dive to 18-20, I have yet to see a AI skipper change the depth of their torpedoes, so there you are at safe depth.

When you are being canned you can use the spectator function to see how/where the cans are being dropped.

Usually the AI drops at 20-50m first, when they have dropped those and prepares for round 2, blow your ballast till you get within that depth. (repeat steps for each run or sink the vessels before they have a chance to get to you (Its possible in all the missions to avoid being canned)).

4) The AI can not always see you and they dont always know your depth or even location.

The AI can not cheat, it is not built to do that.

The have the exact same rules as you do when it comes to visual and asdic.

They dont know your depth.

Heck I had Corevettes trailing 2km behind me looking around, seeking and dropping cans...

As a sub, dont ever dive below 20, sink your enemies, dive to evade torps, and use FLANK speeds, that seems to confuse the AI.

Final Note: The Mike is really a must skipper, it makes the game much more fun and a whole lot easier

Feel free to comment and/or ask further.

It would be helpful if someone can add some comments on the radar rings and the distances teh represent, as well as the easiest way to determine distance to a target when looking through targetting persi/binocs. So someone else thinks setting cans to 200 always hits subs... I can try that too...

On the largest zoom in, the rings are in fact 100m/ring, with the far outside ring being 500m. With subs, you should always attack from at most 25m from their position, and even that may be stretching it unless they go waaay deep.

Is there any way to know the depth of a submerged submarine?

Is there any way to know the depth of a submerged submarine?

No, but there is a little bug that can help you.

Look at it / at the water where it is with your binocs and say "Engage" in your mike..

If you are directly above the sub you get its exact depth, if you are xx Meters away, you have to subtrackt your distance to the spot above from the range you get when you say "Engage".

Just incase , you didn't find it yet .. There are the two radar /( asdic -really) maps .

The small has a 125m division , and the large 100m , but both can be clicked to zoom in or out .. I keep the small on the 500 maximum usually ( divided into 125 circles) ,. Use both.

Yes usually I stay no deeper than 20 ish .

Only for time being the charges set to 200 will destroy anything , if I understood correctly from a posting of East's , that was because of programming - the option then was , either the charges pass thru the vessel , or explode , as they couldn't then be programmed to land on the deck !

That will change in later patches , and in MP .

.

You can turn faster - if speed is 3knots or less in a sub,, or 5knots or less in a surface vessel . The keys are W and R ,, but I never use these at all almost ,, as voice is so much easier . You just say " Pivot - Port or Starboard )

Definitely get a headset . !!!!

.

It's fun barking orders , and people think you are nuts .

.

Another thing , if you look at postings , where most of this has been discused at length ,, If you set preferences to EASY ,, it is more difficult for most missions - as the AI will find it EASIER also , to locate you !!

Thus set on DIFFICULT , it's easier !

Simple logic there ..LOL

MP will be equivalent to the 'Difficult ' setting ,, so be practised !

This is a response to Jesper (I don't want to start a argument here especially being a newbie), but your comment on the manual thing ruining the game really wouldn't if it told you how to sink or destroy other naval ships.

They wouldn't just put you in anyone of these without telling you how to operate it.

I don't like walkthrougths but my manual is 15 pages and I also am having loads of sub problems I don't want to be training for weeks on end to figure out how to play.

By then i'd be damned sick of getting my ass kicked that it would be put away.

I don't have a problem evading torpedos i use binoculars and watch the sides of ship or boat alot of people don't realise that when you turn away from the torps that on close calls you actually sink yourself cuz you turn your ass end like a bat into a ball hitting a homer. On close nicks and scrapes try turning the front of vessell into oncoming torps to swing ass end actually away from oncoming. Gotta use visuals.

another thing to original post why don't 8 subs just rise up and shoot deck guns away? For 1 sub has to surface and if you are close enough to use your 3" against a 4" #1 the boat will see the sub before crewmen get out to start firing upon you.

#2 In that day and age it would be pretty tough to get all subs to surface at once. back then I think 8 subs if per chance they were out of torps and surfaced to fire upon a ship subs lose. Guys on deck of the ship are loaded and waiting as soon as they popped up it would be a shooting gallery for subs would make alot of noise and water camotion giving them away before could get ready.

Hey I completely understand what you were getting at though.

Watch Star Trek, Hunt for Red October and numerous other naval based shows - evade torpedoes (non-homing) by turning into them. Works.