Tides of War

One thing still worries me, though. What happened to the Warspite, the Queen Elizabeth, and the other battleships disabled at Jutland?

Don't know about the others...but I'm still here

Buxton, here is a "what if" for you ...

If Japan is not a militarist state (one of the newspapers in the RNE surface campaign had a headline to that affect), is it still a colonial power? Has Japan been swallowing up Korea, Manchuria, and is it in the "different" 1937 marching and burning up the Canton??? If Japanese expansion were the same, it would be interesting to how IJN and RNE agendas bump heads. Like say the RNE wants to divert IJN assets to the south Atlantic, but Japan want to finish taking over China.

OOOOHHH, major cool idea, Japan takes over China, and the Imperial Russians, still p----- off at the Kaiser for the treaty of Brest-Litovsk (German imposed version of Versailles, but on Russia), join the LFN and a Russo-Japanese Army invades Germany.

AND, if Germany controls most of Northern Africa (i.e. the Suez canal), then the RNE and KLM will fight in the Persian Gulf, the Indian ocean, and the Red Sea (this would be the bottled up Mediterranean fleet). And the Germans will fight Commonwealth ANZAC and Indian forces for the oil fields of the across the Middle East. Plus there will be a a Balkans (German)-- Turko/Persian front (British).

That is my idea for the war in the Pacific. I would assume that the Atlantic will revolve around a three-front invasion of Spain, an eventual RNE D-Day style action on Britain, and a massive air war over Scandanavia.

Sorry for the long, mis-spelled, and grammatically lacking, maybe coherent-thought-lacking post.

I love history, and, of course, 3 cheers for the other thing I love-

enigma!: enigma!: enigma!:

If Japan goes into China in this history, if they get to Manchuria they will bump heads with the Russians, just like in our history. The Russians trounced them, and that's why, after Pearl Harbor, when Hitler declared war on the US, hoping Japan would declare war on Russia and pull some of Stalin's troops from the Eastern Front, it didn't happen. Tojo knew he had his hands more than full just fighting the US.

Torgen, I certainly forgot that the Russians and Japanese hate eachother, but if the Japan promises not to expand any further into northern asia, they might be convinced to join the league??? (who knows, its still pretty far-fetched)

But, that's not the only thing I forgot about, I forgot that the Americans are going to be in the Pacific!!! LFN situation actually looks pretty bleak and unwinnable from that point. Americans can destroy the Panama Canal, and blockade Cape Horn, splitting LFN resources. Looks to me like USA would be in a good position to win the war the, but they are almost as spread out as teh League. If Canada successfully invades them, and Germay can capture enough northern islands to start bombing North America, they are also toast.

What makes this whole scenario so wonderful, is that I don't think anyone can win. From the players perspective, a never-ending war is the only solution to multiplayer...

Curious here.....

Why do you believe the USAmericans would blockage Cape Horn? I'd be inclined to think that they would keep the Panama open particularly for transitting military Pacific - Atlantic and vica versa.

IMO, I would have though the USAmericans in the Phillipnes, so close to the Straits of Singapore and central shipping hub of South East Asia would have been their primary shipping lane of concern. With the Malaysian Straits gone, that creates a bottleneck for Japan and Oceania (Aust and NZ) on cargo to all ports west.

Pioneer,

Ok, it was stupid for me to think that US would block the canal, but it certainly is vulnerable to a Doolittle-esque raid, so "securing" and not blockading Cape Horn would be important for US, plus it splits the Hood from its home port...

Yes, you are definately right about the bottle-neck the LFN has on US provinces, and if the US is stupid enough to try to hang on to those provinces, the RNE will see victory there, so it might be smart for US to run from those provinces and return to fight another day (like McArthur, except to fit the "different world," more like Churchill and his RNE).

Actually, it's just the opposite. With the Phillipines AND Singapore in US hands, the LFN have a noose around their neck. This is the reason Japan went to war with the US in real life- to secure the transit lanes from the Indonesian oil and rubber back to the Home Islands. I'm still trying to imagine how the US possibly got Singapore (and for what reasons, aside from using it as a "Gibraltar of the Pacific" and screwing the LFN)

Look at this map:

http://www.subsowespac.org/maps/southwest_pacific_1942.jpg

If the US owns Singapore, they have cut the Home Islands off from India and Egypt. Unless you have ships head due west from Australia, there's no way of getting past Singapore. Also, look at the Phillipines' position. The US, with its Manila airfields and huge naval base at Cavite, can totally lock down all traffic coming north from the Dutch East Indies and Australia.

The LFN is "le screwed".

Pioneer, sorry I misunderstood,

But Torgen,

they're surrounded on three sides, and the Americans can't hold off air raids form Japanese carriers, Hong Kong and Indonesia all at once, can they... If they've already rushed a task force out from Pearl, it might be a different story... I still say we need a map before we can really be sure of anything

Eddie, I'm still trying to figure out how they got Singapore in the first place

Now that they have it, I'd bet there's a *huge* built-up Asiatic Fleet in Manila, that supplies cover/protection for Singapore. I'd think that for either side to bring a carrier into the area between the Philipines and China would be suicide. They couldn't beat off the land-based air. I'd think that Singapore for the US is like Malta was for the Brits in the real WWII: constantly under attack, but sitting athwart the enemy's supply lines, sending out MTB and destroyer convoy raiders.

The thing is, who owns the Dutch East Indies? It seems to be the LFN. If so, how does a supply convoy with food, fuel and ammo ever reach Singapore? I bet all those little islands are *crawling* with MTBs and MGBs.

Conversely, I can't see how the LFN is still alive without taking the Phillipines. If I were the US, I'd be sinking every tanker that tried to get to Balikapan. The only thing I can see them doing is leaving Indonesian waters, heading east across the top of Australia, then arcing through the Central Pacific by way of the Caroline and Mariana island chains, with air cover from the different atolls. Look at the increased distance that makes, though!

You're right, both sides are too wrapped up in eachother for any distinctive advantage, but I can still see an IJN carrer/landing group hitting the Phillippenes, while the RNE runs a costly diversion from Hong Kong and Indonesia

Like I said, we need a map, and like you said, how did they get Singapore???

Regardless, I've definitely been convinced that the South Pacific is going to be a blast to play MP on.